Tribunal rules in favour of marriage registrar who refused to conduct civil partnerships

[melpomene]

here

The registrar claims that she was 'harassed' by being called homophobic. IMO she clearly was homophobic in refusing to carry out the duties of her job by supporting same-sex couples making commitments to each other. I agree with Peter Tatchell's comment: "Lillian Ladele claims she has won a victory for religious liberty. No, she has not. She has won a victory for the right to discriminate."

[madamez]

Well I do wonder why religious views should be privileged over political views. Both can be sincerely and deeply held, and the holder of the views, however stupid, can claim that it's a deep and abiding part of their identity or whatever. (And actually I don't think people should lose their jobs for being members of the BNP which is, after all, a legally-existing political organisation - but should they say or do anything discriminatory or offensive in the workplace then they should be warned officially and sacked if they don't stop. Just like anyone else.)

[melpomene]

But refusing to marry mixed race couples is a valid analogy. Some people are still opposed to mixed race marriages, and mixed race marriages were illegal in parts of the US only 50 years ago (see my link from my earlier post where a judge justified this on grounds of religion).

And why should discrimination based on religion be more 'justified' than discrimination based on strongly-held political views?

[donnie]

aaahhh, the good old people's republic of Islington.

So glad I am no longer living there.

[TheFallenMadonna]

I don't think religion should necessarily be treated differently to any other strongly held opinions.

Although I am a bit inconsistent about Sikhs, bangles and jewellery bans in schools. But I think that may be because of my irrational dislike of 'the silver ring thing'

[Tortington]

i dont think that analogy works wither - i dont care what the judge says - there isn;t a "you cant marry a black man/woman" religeon int he uk that i know of

[donnie]

true Custy - but look at orthodox jewish and muslim circles in the UK and you will see how much opposition there is to 'marrying out'.

[TheFallenMadonna]

There are all sorts of religions custy. And within religions there are all sorts of variations. Look at the CofE at the moment. There are bound to be nutters people who claim that mixed race marriages are against their religion. Or catholic-protestant marriages. I know people who think they're wrong.

[melpomene]

Discrimination is discrimination, though - the fact that homophobia is more widespread than racism doesn't make homophobia any less discriminatory or unfair.

[donnie]

I do see a bit of an irony here: the registrar has cited religious reasons as her reason for refusal, yet in officiating at civil ceremonies she is presumably ok with non-religious marriage. This muddies the waters for me at any rate.

[nkf]

Anyway, homophobia isn't a key part of Christianity. So I think she was on dodgy grounds there claiming the ceremonies conflicted with her beliefs.

[TheFallenMadonna]

I think that would depend on which Christians you speak to. Which is precisely why the religious disclaimers are dodgy.

[Tortington]

so then the correct analogy would be

could a jew/muslim ask to be re-assigned becuase they don't believe that marrying out it ok

again - am thinking cultural not religeon here.

but if i am wrong and it does say in the qu'oran " ya cant be snoggin non muslims" and it very well might

then i think its ok for the registrar to say "can someone else cover this one please"

no problem

[nkf]

But wasn't she objecting to the being shunned?

[Tortington]

"the fact that homophobia is more widespread than racism doesn't make homophobia any less discriminatory or unfair. "

i can't believe you said that

are you shittiing me?

o m g

[Tortington]

shunned schmunned - hard shit

[Tortington]

donnie
"she is presumably ok with non-religious marriage. This muddies the waters for me at any rate. "

i agree

[melpomene]

custardo, do you mean that you disagree that homophobia is more widespread than racism, or you disagree that when I say that homophobia is as bad as racism?

To clarify, I agree that racism is still horribly widespread, but it is generally considered unacceptable and many people who hold racist views will try to hide or hedge them. I think there are far more people who feel it's ok to be blatantly and openly homophobic (eg saying "gay people are disgusting. it's not natural") than people who feel it's ok to be blatantly racist.

[StealthPolarBear]

Who is this Joanna person?
(I could google but am interested in the MN opinion)

[pigleto]

I am not quite sure exactly why she didn't want to officiate at civil unions.

Is it

1. She thinks that if they don't get a civil union they will somehow go straight.
2. She just doesn't want to be in the same room as gay people.
3. She thinks that if gay people have a contract and the legal rights that go with it gayness will somehow be encouraged.

Her refusal or not to officiate at a civil partnership is not going to bother any sort of christian god. As far as I can make out fundamentalist christians think it is a sin to be gay, not to be in the same room as a gay person without stoning them or to allow gay people to sign legal documents in your presence.

I think the abortion issue is much more serious as your actions directly lead to the death of a fetus which would definately be against many belief structures.

[UnquietDad]

SPB - Joanna Bogle is a "Catholic writer and journalist", aka rent-a-gob who is always trotted out when the "Christian" opinion is sought (despite the fact that she is a patronising, intolerant, whining, strident gobshite who comes across as being about as Christian as my arse).

[MsDemeanor]

I don't see the difference between religion and any other strongly held belief. The BNP member might have strongly held beliefs that interracial marriage is immoral, wrong and unnatural. He'd still be wrong, and shouldn't be allowed to opt out of his job because of those beliefs.

[Tortington]

you have a v. holy arse UQD

aaaaaaaaaaaameeeeeeeeeeeen

[StealthPolarBear]

thanks UQD
I would never have got that succint description from a google search

[UnquietDad]

She has a blog

I have it bookmarked

know thine enemy

[InLoveWithSweeneyTodd]

UQD that has got to be the most uninteresting blog I have ever attempted to read. I couldn't go past the third line of her profile.
Then my eye caught the words "Opus Dei" in bold... oh dear.