David Cameron: It is your fault if you are fat and poor.

[FairyMum]

Has anyone commented on the David Cameron-speech on moral neutrality? He is a price-dick, isn't he?

Custardo- that's great, you had a mum who wanted good things for you.
You had pride, drive and determination.
There are lots of working class peopl with these attributes
But you can't gnore the fact that not everyone is as lucky as you to have a parent like that.
Some are born into desperate circumstances whic generationally repeat themselves.

i think expectation and low self esteem are very pivoatl

my dd2 was a teenage mum with a bf who had been in care and already had a one year old son

he had no expecations they both worked in a poub kitchen

dd2 has always worked

after working in cafe/pub from 15 to 22 she has managed to get into an office based job and hse has pulled through her bf with lots of ups and downs so he has now got an 80 quid a wek job in a garage and a plkace rto start at college in spetember to train a s a mechanic

i have fingers crossed they are getting past the provident loans and the bailiffs if her bf casn reallyt get to grips with colege he has no exam passes and hasnt had a lot of chances but he benefits from hwer stoicism and her desire to make things work and the fact she has family who have aspirations

doing it without is bloody hard work im sure

it's not either or is it?

it's not either it's all your fault, or it's all the govt and where you were born and into what circumstances fault.

i don't think he said anywhere that if you're fat it's your fault or if you're poor it's your fault.

i think he talks about the pointlessness of govt policy if there is a culture of instant gratification etc etc.

early intervention is my schtick. but no one aint' gonna pay for that ever so it all carries on. and please don't cite surestart the biggest auld pile of waste of money poo ever.

Message withdrawn

mrsruffalo that is the point - we need to stop these circumstances repeating themselves. That is all he is saying.

classic tory tactic Victim Blaming.well then it's DC fault he is a smarmy smug vaccous git

I am absolutely not a DM reader, but I do agree with what he says. I'm not even a Tory voter either.

I don't think that is his point.

so if we cant expect people to take responsibility for themselves, what is the answer? its all very well slating dc but how do we improve the quality of life in this country?

It seems that actually most are agreeing that it is a combination of circumstances ( even DC) that contribute to living in poverty. But where in his speech did he even mention the poverty trap that we are all acknowledging - what exactly was he proposing to change things for people where the want IS there, but the circumstances simply do not permit a change?

Ken Livingstone was talking about something the other day and said that it used to be that being illiterate and innumerate did not used to matter so much because you could earn a decent living in manufacturing - and because manuf has all but gone, this is a serious problem for people who cannot read and write - and that could be for people of any age - perpetuating the underclass of people who are stuck with what to do to earn a living - even if they have the 'want'.

victim blaming? he levels large parts of his speech against all of modern society. are we all victims?

"We as a society have been far too sensitive. In order to avoid injury to people's feelings, in order to avoid appearing judgemental, we have failed to say what needs to be said. We have seen a decades-long erosion of responsibility, of social virtue, of self-discipline, respect for others, deferring gratification instead of instant gratification"

seems fairly inclusive of all soceity as a whole and i would say is aimed at young people from all walks of life who think the world owes them something.

after all this debate it does not seem to me he is talking for the benefit of the 'poor' and to 'shake them up' he is talking to the people who will vote for him saying the things they want to hear, righteous indignation and all that.

there is a large group of people completely disengaged from the political process they become easy targets too when a group needs to be blamed, this happens a lot in recessions, makes people feel better about themselves.

it is like all that talk of asylum seekers and 'bogus' asylum seekers the demon personified now seems to be about 'the youth' or the perennial favourite 'the feckless single mother'
it is really depressing

i have never voted tory. i believe that (as is almost always the case) there are a combination of factors that result in poverty, social exclusion etc.

i don't think it's a terrible thing to call attention to the personal responsibility that people have. however, this has to run in tandem with giving them the means by which to make the tough decisions which will help them get out of those circs.

the iain duncan smith stuff is amazing, did anyone see the observer article last weekend...fabulous stuff. and i'm the last person in the world to praise the conservatives if i can help it. i'll try to find the article.

Of course it is excellent that so many people, including so many mumsnetters and their children, have pulled themselves up by their bootstraps by dint of incredibly hard work and having a vision that things could be better. I know that sounds patronising, but I mean it (my parents left school at 14 so I don't exactly come from generations of privilege myself).

BUT your stories demonstrate how awesomely difficult it is, and make me think that it is no wonder that people who manage this feat are the exception rather than the rule.

people can take responsibility for themselves but they need the tools to help them

education and hosuign are not consistently good

neither is health care

it does depend where you live

there are still too many deprived areas

and on the other hand facilities for poor people in prosperous areas are lousy like transport, acees to things they need etc so being poor in a depirved area is hard and so is being a tiny mniority poor person in a wealthy area

here it is

sophable, crossed posts there - I would never vote Tory either but I am admiring the work that IDS is doing now, too.

also i trust that everyone on this thread has read the full transcript of the speech before commenting

Oh God! I didn't realise this was about the tory party and the 5% who own 95% of the country.

I have agreed with him all along- yes, they must take responsibility for the country's failings!
GOOD OL dAVE

I think the media play a rather large part in all of this. A deliberately contentious headline which will send the Great British Public in droves to vote for DC. And the media's continual coverage of celebrities living lavish lifestyles encourages the 'poor' and not so poor to have completely unrealistic aspirations. Plus the 'fame' element where many children's aspirations is to be rich and famous, be on the X factor at one end of the scale, or just be on Jeremy Kyle just to be on TV with no realisation that the whole show is making a fool out of them for the entertainment of the people watching at home and, presumably, the delight of the producers.

apologies if this is repeating what others have already said, but there are largish numbers of people in the UK who still don't know what constitutes a 'healthy diet'

I teach kids who tell me that their diet is 'Healthy miss, because my mum gives me Sunny Delight to drink' and these are kids in secondary school.

So they, and their parents follow the 'advice' of advertisements and get their information from what they see on TV.

It is all well and good expecting people to make good choices, but they need the correct information to make those choices

Erm, pity about Ray Lewis having just been caught with his hand in the till/lying about it/up to something else dubious...

Actually the stuff taht always annoys me when politicians start banging on about 'morality' is that they always start saying people should be made to ';try harder to stay married'and then a rant about feminism (though they call it the Permissive Society). The reason marriage has declined is that women are no longer forced to stay married to violent or inadequate men for economic reasons, and that';s a good thing. Parents can do a good job of parenting without having to be a happy couple who live in the same house.

Madamz, if obesity is largely due to the factors you describe (selling off of playing fields, lack of access to fresh food in inner cities etc) why is it rising so dramatically in countries like Australia?

You just have to walk through my local town and there are hordes of girls with pushchairs, smoking and eating Krispy Kremes.

Across the road from where they gather is an insurance office, full of young kids beavering away.

Who has got the right idea? If I were 16, and most of my mates had babies, I think it would be a whole lot more fun to spend my days hanging out with them than stuck in a hot stuffy office all hours for in all probability less money.

Baby = flat. Working in office/shop but no baby = years of living at home and no prospect at all of own place.

My friend, a Labour party activist and teacher, bought a flat with huge mortgage. Whilst she contemplates her lentil stew, the teenagers next door live the life of riley in their council flats (same development) with babies. Her blood pressure is off the scale! My friend may have personal responsibility and be slim, but who is better off?