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Why is it that children of immigrants on the right propose the harshest immigration policies?

36 replies

MyCyanBear · Today 16:57

Was reading up on Reform's immigration plans and the actual wording surprised me. It's not just tougher rules for new arrivals: indefinite leave to remain "will be abolished. No new awards granted and existing ones rescinded." So people who already have settled status would lose it and reapply every five years against salary thresholds they haven't published.

What struck me is that their home affairs spokesman, Zia Yusuf, is the son of an NHS paediatrician and a nurse who came from Sri Lanka in the 80s. Run his own family through the policy and there's no published answer to whether they'd have qualified at each renewal. NHS wages being what they are.

Longer piece with the sources here if anyone wants the detail: trendingsheet.com/article/would-reform-immigration-rules-let-zia-yusuf-parents-stay

OP posts:
ShetlandishMum · Today 16:58

Why is that important?

PoppieCock · Today 16:59

What other 'children' are you referring to?

boohoo26 · Today 17:00

It’s very interesting and I found the same when I was an immigrant myself in an English speaking country. You would meet up with expats who didn’t consider themselves to be immigrant. It’s different for them apparently.
but they would willingly pull the ladder up behind themselves if they could

stargirl1701 · Today 17:00

Priti Patel and Suella Braverman too.

FKAT · Today 17:01

Because they are allowed to have come to conclusions based on their own individual experiences and observations over their lifetimes? Conclusions that don't just relate to one aspect of their parents' backstory.

Do you think all adult children should have opinions that only validate their parents' experiences? My father was a violent ex-convict. I am in favour of tough prison sentences. Does that make me a hypocrite?

Dexternight · Today 17:02

stargirl1701 · Today 17:00

Priti Patel and Suella Braverman too.

Because they come from racist households.
They are told early on they are superior from other immigrants and to hate on the others by the family.

PrizedPickledPopcorn · Today 17:02

It’s because they see the difference between resourceful families like their own, who always intended to become independent, and some of the people coming today.

PoppieCock · Today 17:02

stargirl1701 · Today 17:00

Priti Patel and Suella Braverman too.

Right, so 3 free thinking adults then.

Still not sure what the OP's point is.

FKAT · Today 17:03

Also not all 'immigrants' (like they are all one monolithic group!) have the same opinions. And it is pretty racist of you to assume they do. Immigrants (from the 197 nations around the world) come from complex societies with their own divides and class structures and alliances. Of course they are going to reflect those in a new country.

I'm getting pretty sick of this 'black people/brown people must all have the same opinions' racist garbage to be honest.

saraclara · Today 17:06

There's been a lot of pulling the ladder up behind them going on in government for many years. The majority of Home Office ministers had immigrant backgrounds, yet rose to the task of trying to prevent others from having that advantage.

In eight years we had seven HO cabinet ministers and only two of them didn't have immigrant backgrounds.

Sajid Javid (April 2018 – July 2019) – Conservative (Theresa May)
Priti Patel (July 2019 – September 2022) – Conservative (Boris Johnson)
Suella Braverman (September 2022 – October 2022) – Conservative (Liz Truss)
Grant Shapps (October 2022 – October 2022) – Conservative (Liz Truss)
Suella Braverman (October 2022 – November 2023) – Conservative (Rishi Sunak)
James Cleverly (November 2023 – July 2024) – Conservative (Rishi Sunak)
Yvette Cooper (July 2024 – September 2025) – Labour (Keir Starmer)
Shabana Mahmood (September 2025 – July 2026) – Labour (Keir Starmer)

PrizedPickledPopcorn · Today 17:06

Also, perhaps the sustainability of this country is not what it was. We simply haven’t got a system with any give now. It’s all at capacity+. In the past we’ve been happy enough to budge over and share because there was enough. Now, not so much.
I remember the response to the Vietnamese boat people in the 70s. We happily sorted and donated for a need that we could see, even though times were hard. I remember such excellent health care then, though. There was space on the roads, space in the services…

Menopausalsourpuss · Today 17:07

I don't really get what your point is. As a country our finances are in a shocking state. Debt is £3 TRILLION up from £350bn in 2000 and we are running massive deficits with big interest payments. We can't afford to keep importing people who are a big net cost especially when we have huge numbers of fit youngish people on benefits who could do the unskilled jobs. It just doesn't make sense. Maybe children of immigrants can see that more clearly as I doubt their original countries have the same insane policies - most countries ask immigrants to leave if they lose their job and would certainly not give recent immigrants benefits (including in-work) as we do.

Freddiefisher · Today 17:10

Times have changed
The benefits system can't support the amount of people arriving who are given asylum and able to claim the same as someone born here .
So ..I don't know maybe it's easier to target people already here ,than to stop the influx of new boat people.
At least that way ,they can be seen to be doing something,to keep people happy

itsgettingweird · Today 17:13

This is my MP. Braverman. Goes on about immigration being bad and all I keep thinking is “actually I agree because it means we have you” 🤣

On a serious note though I cannot take her seriously because of it. I just don’t respect her enough to listen to anything she has to say based on this 1 stance.

Do we need to control immigration? Absolutely. Is having set standards and guidelines a bad thing? Not completely.

But the NHS is one institution that relies on Migrants and and if the wages being low is what prevents those workers getting leave to remain it a) won’t work and b) more importantly smacks of the “right” immigrant. Eg one they feel worthy based on a small criteria including wealth.

Also why would someone want to come to this country and work in out nhs for 20/30 years to then be sent back with no pension etc after paying into this country the entire time they are here?

Their policies are very short sighted in practice.

inkognitha · Today 19:28

Because they come from families who wanted to become English/British, who judged that the society, culture, laws were better in the UK than in their native country.

There was a time where people saw the good in Western civilisation, aspired to modernity, science and emancipation and were not afraid to compare between cultures. Now it’s post-colonial guilt, exoticism (with worrying racist subtext) and cultural relativism …

Marmalademorning · Today 19:33

Freddiefisher · Today 17:10

Times have changed
The benefits system can't support the amount of people arriving who are given asylum and able to claim the same as someone born here .
So ..I don't know maybe it's easier to target people already here ,than to stop the influx of new boat people.
At least that way ,they can be seen to be doing something,to keep people happy

This ⬆️⬆️⬆️

CraftyNavySeal · Today 19:38

My grandparents were immigrants, they came to England when immigration was in the tens of thousands per year. That doesn’t mean I have to agree to a million a year.

DP is an immigrant and even he doesn’t think infinity immigration is a good idea.

There are only so many immigrants we can house and integrate at once.

Freddiefisher · Today 20:06

CraftyNavySeal · Today 19:38

My grandparents were immigrants, they came to England when immigration was in the tens of thousands per year. That doesn’t mean I have to agree to a million a year.

DP is an immigrant and even he doesn’t think infinity immigration is a good idea.

There are only so many immigrants we can house and integrate at once.

Yes agree
But if we ,who are born here ,of British descent say that ,we are racist .
And middle of the road policital parties ,are so terrified of being called racist,it's tied their hands in knots ..they can't see the wood for the trees ,
So they do nothing
Has the new PM even mentioned immigration yet ...not as far as I know he hasn't..
So another ostrich
And that is how we will end up with reform or restore getting in , because they don't care about being called racist..and so far they seem to be the only ones concerned about boat people.
I don't think labour or conservatives are that out of touch,they can't see the feeling about immigration in UK.
They just don't know how to tackle it , without being called racist
But at some point one of the two parties needs to grow a thick skin ...
Otherwise....

PotatoesAreLife · Today 20:08

I have asked myself this. My local reform counsellor is a trans man who has indefinite leave to remain. A turkey advocating for Christmas?

Edictfromno10 · Today 20:10

Internalised racism....

HermioneWeasley · Today 20:15

Because many of us had parents who came legally because they admired the UK and its culture and wanted to contribute and integrate.

They might feel that current waves of immigration do not have the same intent

Odot · Today 20:15

stargirl1701 · Today 17:00

Priti Patel and Suella Braverman too.

India has a very established, harsh cultural hierarchy. They’re racist to their own countrymen let alone other countries immigrants!

bryceQ · Today 20:30

I live in London and know many children of immigrants who are very anti immigration actually. I think it's very common. I find locally it's white, middle class who are more accepting.

Bringemout · Today 20:32

I think firstly I find it strange that people think other countries don’t have a right and leftwing politics. Secondly you are allowed to think things regardless of what ethnicity you are, there is a strange idea that permeates primarily the left that ethnic minorities must perpetually be beholden to left wing politics.

Talk to people who migrated in the 50’s onwards, what was attractive about britain was things like the rule of law a belief that justice wasn’t dispensed based on random biases (your religion, your caste, you tribe), that they could build something (many people come from areas of the world where civil rights around things like property ownership are fragile), thats they could better their lives and the lives of their descendents. Many arrived in britain when living on welfare wasn’t an option and you had to be a real self starter to get here in the first place so most had a real work ethic, most wanted to become british, many have traditonal and conservative personal values (family oriented, restraint, self regulation, often religious to varying degrees).

In light of that why would you think the children of migrants would be super left wing and laissez faire. Open borders is a capitalist wet dream as well, I never get lefties who argue for it. Limitless supplies of labour.

On this pull the ladder up behind them, is anyone seriously suggesting open borders. Pretty much everyone I know thinks there must be a limit somewhere. People may differ on how many but very few people want open borders. Some people actively don’t want people from their home countries because they worry about ultra conservative values being imported (can think of a few ex muslims like this).

Fundamentally if you believe having a migrant parent obliges you to hold specific political beliefs and that diversity of opinion is unacceptable then you are infantilising ethnic minorities and you simply don’t see them as british as their white compatriots.

Firetreev · Today 20:37

Odot · Today 20:15

India has a very established, harsh cultural hierarchy. They’re racist to their own countrymen let alone other countries immigrants!

I think this explains a lot of it. It's tied to the caste system. If you have a group of people in your own culture who you openly call 'untouchables' it's going to lead to some troubling views.

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