Can anyone help me understand what this means?

[itsgettingweird]

I’ve been reading that the man responsible for throwing the child into the crocodile enclosure has been placed on conditional bail as they aren’t considered fit enough for questioning.

What are the conditions likely to be? Are they monitored? Is it released to a secure hospital?

Otherwise it seems strange to me someone too unwell to be questioned but unwell enough to throw a 3yo to a crocodile is deemed well enough to be allowed to roam the streets again?

We still don't know exactly what happened beyond what eyewitnesses - and non-eyewitnesses who were elsewhere in the building, and people who know people who were in the building - have told the media.

That's not to say that nothing happened, just that while we can speculate about where the man was from, what disabilities he has, whether he had carers, what the carers were doing and where the parents were - none of us really know.

Where he should have been in the first place.

Does anyone remember the case of a random man lifting throwing a toddler to the floor in an airport? I have seen the video of the incident several times, despite preferring not to have, but none of the follow up information- how the child is, what happened to the perpetrator. It’s a distressing video.

The child that fell into a gorilla enclosure, fell through an ineffective fence. Not similar at all.

That was at the Jersey Zoo. There's video on YouTube. The gorilla that approached the child appeared protective towards him.

none of us really know

It’s pretty easy to put together if you have certain life experience.

Young man out for a few hours, carers lagging behind to give him some independence (whilst not really giving him any attention or being alert)

Parents doing a parent and child version of the same scenario.

Both the parents and the caregivers not being close enough to seperate the young man and the child before he could throw the wee one over the barrier because none of them were paying the attention they should have been.

That was in Russia, officially classed as a terrorist attack and I’m pretty sure I read updates in the Press.

Apparently he had 2 carers with him, so my guess is he lives in a secure care home and his bail conditions are that he has to remain there under supervision. If he was unable to be interviewed he may not have capacity to be tried (there will still be a trial of the facts to establish what happened, but a hospital order/section may be more appropriate than prison)

You can have carers and not live in a secure facility. For adults the only secure facilities are prison and hospital in any case.

People have to decide whether we accept care in the community or not. The alternative was really awful institutions, do you really think we’d do them better now?

I don’t think we would. So the alternative is we accept these occasional ‘incidences’ and try to prevent them where possible by putting safeguards in.

Unfortunately it’s very hard to accept these statistically negligible incidences because they’re so bloody tragic.

Yes, it's very easy to speculate and imagine what could have happened.

This is ridiculous, not only is there nothing to suggest the parents were not paying attention, but a 3 year old should be allowed the freedom to be a couple of steps from their parents without fear that a man will pick up the child and throw said child.
The fact that this happened by no means suggests the parents weren’t paying adequate attention.

I have no idea what you mean, could you expand?

That’s your post on a seven year old thread about a child drag star dancing in adult nightclubs for adult men to throw cash for him, people who queried safeguarding against the peso’s were called bigots (and terfs) by some, I read the thread at the time and understand your secret caste comment in that context, but genuinely, what does any of that have to do with this case though?

Op asked the what conditional bail could mean on regards to learning disabilities? What caste do you think this man with learning disabilities is part of?

Just a measured response 🙌

Not true. Loads of adults live in secure care homes (meaning they are locked/montored by CCTV etc). Look up DOLS. They may not be "high security " i.e. they don't have multiple guards, but they are secure.

What do you mean none of them were paying the attention they should be? I hope you aren't including the parents in that. I think anyone who looks to blame the parents in any way for this is the lowest of the low. It's perfectly natural to let a three year old have a little space at a zoo visit.

It's possible to have a level of 'care in the community without taking people to a bloody crocodile enclosure!

I don’t care what the parents were doing or if this person has an IQ of -10, they need to be locked up for the rest of their life for throwing a small child into a crocodile enclosure.

It sounds like the carers, and the parents, were all on their bloody phones.

Tbh, he apparently already had 24 hour supervision. He was being looked after by two carers who were supposed to be supervising him whilst at the Zoo. And that didn’t work out very well did it? I hope whilst he’s out on bail, that it doesn’t actually mean ‘out’ and that he is in a secured building somewhere.

My understanding was that he lacked the mental capacity to be interviewed. It’s there and searchable I’m sure. I do not know the whole story but what has been reported is the person was with two carers. For the record I am a SN parent and work with children with complex additional needs. I am reading between the lines, possibly wrongly, however, it appears to be somebody who is impaired and unable to understand the enormity of what they have done. My thoughts are entirely with the little boy and his family.

AuraBora

that will be safeguards I mentioned

So its the parents fault some psycho chucked their child into a crocodile pit?

Never in all my years as a parent would I have included 'being picked up and hurled into a pond of crocodiles' in my mental risk assessment of possible hazards to mitigate against. We spent lots of time encouraging independence: how to climb down from a sofa safely, on tummy, feet first/press the button and wait for the Green Man before using the crossing/sit down to eat/wait for Mummy where the fence ends.

What is the answer though, if the question is What to do with LD people who need 2 to 1 or even more to be able to access society safely (theirs and members of the public)? Institutions do not work. Care in the community is deeply unglamorous and undervalued.

How are the parents not victims??

Ok the child is clearly the primary victim but of course the parents are victims too!

I don't think anyone is denying that this is an absolutey horrific incident or that the man in question committed the act. But we can't assume from that that he is guilty of a specific crime. The first news article I read said that a man had been arrested on suspicion of attempted murder. Well I'm no lawyer and happy to be corrected but I am pretty sure that you have to be able to demonstrate intent to convict someone of a crime like attempted murder. To do that it would surely be necessary to start by showing that the perpetrator understood right from wrong, and had an understanding of the likely outcome of throwing the child that distance and close to crocodiles. Depending on the actual disabilities that may not be the case.
Of course it is hard not to react emotionally to such a horrendous event and "he's guilty, lock him up" is a natural reaction but not necessarily the right one. The law has to be followed in all cases, for all our sakes. There has to be a proper investigation and fact based decisions. It is also possible that there were negligence/health and safety breaches by other individuals or organisations and that criminal charges could arise from that. We just don't know at this stage. Things can be more complex than they first appear and are often multifactorial. I'm sure various agencies including the police and HSE will be investigating thoroughly which will take time. In the meanwhile the professionals who are in possession of more knowledge than anyone here obviously don't think that remanding him in custody is appropriate but I doubt very much that he's out roaming the streets.