Three men convicted of raping a woman on a beach in Brighton.

[EvangelicalAboutButteredToast]

Just reading this story and obviously being fucking sick of male violence against women, but also wondering what measly sentence will be handed out.

One has a murder conviction in Egypt that he hasn’t served time on and all three asylum claims are currently being appealed. I doubt we’ll ever find out if the appeals are successful, but my instinct is we are stuck with these men now. Depressing.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvg090pe65vo

Didn’t you mean :

“Three Muslim illegal immigrants convicted of raping a woman on a beach in Brighton”?

I was quoting the BBC article I linked to. You don’t like their headline I assume 🙈

What a disgusting story.

One of the men claimed in court he was filming the rape so he could give her evidence - even though he was spitting at her face while the other two raped her.

Another man said he was on the beach looking for a virgin bride.

I hope they rot in jail!

Rape hardly gets any jail time though does it?

Under the sentencing guidelines, this is clearly culpability A and I suspect it is category 1 or 2. If it is category 2, the starting point for sentencing will be 10 years and the sentence should be in the range 9-13 years. If it is category 1, the starting point is 15 years and the sentence should be in the range 13-19 years.

Contrary to your belief that we are stuck with these men, the UK government is under a legal duty to make a deportation order against anyone who is not British or Irish who is convicted of an offence and sentenced to at least 12 months imprisonment unless certain exceptions apply. Over 5,000 such criminals were deported in 2024, the most recent year for which figures are available. However, the number of offenders awaiting deportation is rising at the moment.

Contrary to what some people seem to believe, the vast majority of sexual offences in the UK are committed by white male British citizens. This applies across all types of offence. For example, many people seem to think that grooming gangs are an Asian phenomenon, but this is not true. See, for example, the Blackrod grooming gang, were all 10 of the convicted offenders are white British citizens.

Oh that’s bloody good news in your first and second paragraphs. I honestly thought rape was about four years.

Fucking disgusting sub-human scum.

Have you seen the picture of his hideous grin?

We should be executing them in the street, that would make the fuckers think twice before coming here illegally.

The United Kingdom government is failing the people of this country.

We have enough problems. This needs to stop.

What about the white British men who commit around 80% of all sex offences. Should they be executed in the street too?

Yes.

I disagree.

Capital punishment for sex offences would make it more likely that victims would be murdered so that they cannot identify their attacker. And, of course, if you had your way Andy Malkinson would have been executed for a crime he did not commit, as would many others.

Unlike you, it seems, I do not support mob justice.

The current Home Secretary has introduced policies so that these monsters will be deported pretty darn quick . Unlike before, when we didn't deport to places like Iran even if you were a convicted sex offender. They are going back to Egypt and Iran and good - absolute bastards.

@Pleasantsort2 "They are going back to Egypt and Iran and good - absolute bastards."

But are they really? I keep reading about successful appeals in the most astonishing instances and wonder about the sanity (or motives) of the judges. Deportation is supposed to happen when a sentence exceeds 12 months. I don't want to jump on a bandwagon but it does seem that far too often the human rights of the man trump those of a raped woman. And in reality we've no idea if these men are genuinely fleeing persecution or if, like the Egyptian in this case, they're feeling a murder charge.

Well we shall see but at least the policy is in place, whereas it was not in place before and more of these horrible men have actually been deported due to this legislation. The Egyptian is a convicted murderer, so I think he will be offsky.

I think I read that if they joined in the demonstration against the Iranian government they cannot be deported regardless of whether the whole asylum claim is proved nonsense (I’m pretty sure that was in a clip from LBC with a lawyer describing a recent case).

They were remanded .

But at anytime. Directly a civilian protests against the government of a brutal regime they cannot never be sent back, as it’s an automatic death sentence.

I used to agree with this stance but, now in my 40s - after years of prosecuting and defending sex offenders - I no longer believe it (and no longer in the field).

There is no solid evidence that offenders refrain from killing victims because they are making a calculated assessment about identification or punishment. That claim is often repeated, but it isn’t well supported

Rape is so extraordinarily prevalent and the harm is so severe and long-lasting that it needs to be punished far more significantly than it currently is. On any reasonable view of proportionality, it is not treated with sufficient seriousness.

Every woman I know over 20 has been sexually assaulted in some way. Many very seriously. I’m actually at the point where I care less and less about the innocent (and this pains me as a lawyer who was brought up on the principle of innocent until proven guilty) and want to scream in frustration for the estimated 10% of women in the UK that are raped over their lifetime

want to scream in frustration for the estimated 10% of women in the UK that are raped over their lifetime

I share your frustration, but I don't think harsher punishment is the solution, and particularly not punishment that will inevitably result in people being executed for crimes they did not commit. For me, the solution is getting more convictions, and the biggest priority there is finding out why the victim withdraws from the case in around 50% of all recorded rapes and doing something to address that.

For me, the solution is getting more convictions, and the biggest priority there is finding out why the victim withdraws from the case in around 50% of all recorded rapes and doing something to address that.

probably because they are told:
are you sure you didn’t want it?
are you sure you didn’t imagine it?
why were you there at that time?
do you think you encouraged it?
what were you wearing?
are you being a racist in this accusation?
what could you have done differently?
do you know how hard it will be to prove this?
do you know your sex life will be exposed?
are you being vindictive in this claim?
you just want to make him look bad don’t you?

Everyone knows why women withdraw their allegations.

As an educated, white, professional who is articulate and understands “the system” the only circumstances in which I would report a rape is if I had suffered serious additional violence of the sort that couldn’t be written off as “rough sex”. That is the problem.

Rapists need to be adequately punished. In some areas it’s effectively decriminalised. I’d be open to the idea of a higher threshold of proof for the death penalty e.g. where there’s video or DNA.

I can’t help but feel if one in ten men were being raped the law would make adjustments pretty quickly

Everyone knows why women withdraw their allegations.

Everyone thinks they know but, as far as I can see, no-one has ever bothered to ask the women concerned. So "everyone" may be right or they may be wrong.

But I note that you again turn to punishment and again suggest the death penalty, apparently with a higher threshold for proof than "beyond reasonable doubt". Whatever threshold you set, you would end up executing people for crimes they did not commit. We know from the USA, where the press can interview members of the jury, that juries misunderstand what DNA evidence does and doesn't prove, just as they misunderstand fingerprint evidence. I will never forget a case where a man was convicted of murder and condemned to death. The jurors, when interviewed, said that the deciding factor for them was that his fingerprints were found in the victim's home, where he was murdered, ignoring the fact that it was acknowledged by the prosecution that the defendant frequently visited the victim, so the fingerprints proved absolutely nothing. We have no reason to believe that juries here are any better.

The evidence is that the death penalty is not a deterrent. Some states in the USA have the death penalty, others do not. It is therefore possible to compare states that are demographically similar to see whether the death penalty is effective. If you do that, you will find that the murder rate is slightly higher in states that have the death penalty - not enough to be statistically significant and say that the death penalty results in an increase in murders, but enough to say that the death penalty is no deterrent. There is no reason to assume that rape would be any different, so you are proposing a solution that is unlikely to solve the problem.

What is a deterrent is the certainty of being caught, which brings us back to the real solution which is addressing the reasons why so many cases never get to court.

Everyone thinks they know but, as far as I can see, no-one has ever bothered to ask the women concerned. So "everyone" may be right or they may be wrong

Are you actually serious?!

There’s a significant body of evidence that tells us why women withdraw rape allegations.

2026 MoD report on victim withdrawal rates in adult rape

2025 Rape Crisis England and Wales “living in limbo review”
2021 ministry of justice review of adult rape
2019 and again in 2021 Mayor of London rape review

There are literally hundreds of academic research papers on the topic.

And then there’s women’s lived experience. One in ten of us have been raped, we know other women who have been raped. We discuss why we did or didn’t pursue a complaint. We know when we would or when we wouldn’t. It’s a part of our lives.

So let me rephrase that. Maybe “everyone” doesn’t know. But every woman does. Including those on this thread that have shared reasons which you have dismissed.

There is no reason to assume that rape would be any different, so you are proposing a solution that is unlikely to solve the problem

I’m pretty sure being dead prevents rapists raping 🤷‍♀️

What I don’t understand is if I fled a country where I was in danger and was kindly given sanctuary (and funding) in a safe richer country I would be extremely bloody grateful and would look to keep my head down / integrate with the hosts. Yet they arrive and proceed to commit violent crime against the host population? I really don’t get it.

I have not dismissed any reasons advanced by women on this thread. I have disagreed with you about capital punishment and suggested we need to know more about the reasons women withdraw, but at no point have I dismissed the reasons people have put forward and I would never dismiss anyone's lived experience. The reports you quote may have correctly identified the most common reasons, but they seem to me to rely on anecdotal evidence from a few victims rather than a systematic study. If I am wrong on that, I am happy to be corrected.

People say the same about murderers - that once they are dead, they can't murder. And yet the murder rate in US states with capital punishment is slightly higher than in those without. So the fact remains, the evidence is clear that capital punishment does not work as a deterrent. If you want to cut down on sexual offences, capital punishment is not the answer. And I note that you avoid the point that, regardless of what safeguards you put in place, the introduction of capital punishment would inevitably lead to people being executed for crimes they had not committed.

The only answer that works is to make sure that more offenders are convicted. Potential offenders are much less likely to offend if they know they are likely to be caught.