Three men convicted of raping a woman on a beach in Brighton.

[EvangelicalAboutButteredToast]

Just reading this story and obviously being fucking sick of male violence against women, but also wondering what measly sentence will be handed out.

One has a murder conviction in Egypt that he hasn’t served time on and all three asylum claims are currently being appealed. I doubt we’ll ever find out if the appeals are successful, but my instinct is we are stuck with these men now. Depressing.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvg090pe65vo

I would assume they don’t feel grateful. Most of them look furious. I’m going to guess they were promised a land that was rich and plentiful and instead they turned up, have little to occup themselves, it’s ridiculously expensive so the money they are given doesn’t go far, the women aren’t interested and the men are hostile.

Absolutely! @prh47bridge why do YOU think women withdraw their allegations?
you seem to be discounting what @DancingNotDrowning and I have suggested?

All I disagreed with was your statement that "everyone knows why women withdraw their allegations". I did not dismiss any actual reasons advanced by women on this thread.

There is plenty of anecdotal evidence, but we know that anecdotal evidence can give a false picture. That is why I would like to see a proper study. Why are you against such a study?

The available statistics do not support your argument that the majority of rapists are repeat offenders. There are a small number of serial perpetrators, but the majority are not repeat offenders as far as we know.

No convicted rapist will serve a sentence measured in months unless the judge decides to ignore the sentencing guidelines. The absolute minimum sentence for the least serious cases where there are substantial mitigating factors if 4 years. It is extremely rare for a case to attract a sentence that low. The average sentence is 9-10 years and can go as high as 19 years for the most serious cases where there are aggravating factors.

You say it is not substantiated that introducing capital punishment would inevitably lead to people being executed for crimes they have not committed. Given that we know that this has happened throughout history whenever capital punishment has been used, what kind of substantiation do you need? Or do you prefer to simply ignore the evidence?

I'm sorry you don't care that your policy would have resulted in Andy Malkinson being executed for a rape he had not committed and, in all likelihood, Paul Quinn, the real rapist, would never have been convicted.

It is precisely because I do care about the women who are raped that I want an effective solution. Capital punishment is good for people who want revenge, but it has never been effective at preventing crime. The only thing that works is the certainty of detection. If you really care about the women who are raped, that is what you should want.

I have not discounted your suggestions. You may be right. All I have said is that, rather than relying on anecdotal evidence, which is all we seem to have at the moment, it would be good to have a proper study. We should certainly start working on the factors you mention and, if police attitudes have not improved, that needs to be fixed. But we shouldn't assume those are the only factors. It may be that there are other important factors that matter. Is the time it takes to bring a case to court a significant factor as one study suggests? Is the fact that many women believe, wrongly, that only 6% of cases that get to court result in a conviction a significant factor as another study suggests?

We need to identify all the significant factors and take steps to deal with them so that we can reduce the number of victims who withdraw from the process as far as possible. That is my point. In saying that, I am not in any way discounting your suggestions or anyone else's.

Some of these men are so stupid that they cannot think even five minutes ahead, let alone how to get away with it.

I'm sorry you don't care that your policy would have resulted in Andy Malkinson being executed for a rape he had not committed and, in all likelihood, Paul Quinn, the real rapist, would never have been convicted

FWIW this stranger on the internet DGAF about that particular POS either. He's not an innocent victim he's a convicted sex offender, if there was an execution policy for it then he wouldn't have been falsely imprisoned for that particular crime because he'd have been unable to commit it, what with having already been executed for his previous offense.

No I do not care about the feelings of foreign men over actual women. However, I do care that around 75%-80% of all rapes in the UK are committed by white UK citizens. Those committed by the demographics you care about are just a tiny minority of all cases. I want rapes generally reduced, not just rapes by certain ethnicities.

No, Andy Malkinson was not a convicted sex offender. He had a conviction for criminal damage and another for a passport offence in another country. Those were his only convictions prior to being wrongly convicted of rape. So if there was an execution policy he would have been executed for a crime he did not commit.

Surely one google search on their phones would tell them what the UK is like. Maybe they believe it because they want to believe it.

Yes but if I don’t know all the reasons why women withdraw rape allegations how can I hold them partially responsible for the incredibly poor conviction rate? Men are accused of rape and they didn’t do it too - look I can name one! How terrible that that happened to a man. Yes it’s very sad that 10% of women have been raped but men. Urgh. I think you missed the perennial favourite of playing devils advocate which is always welcome in any discussion about sexual assault.

That poor woman. I’d be quite happy for all sex offenders to be parachuted off to a deserted island together and leave them to get on with it. I’ve no sympathy for them and I don’t think you can be rehabilitated out of being a rapist.

Ah the whataboutery commences.
I never understand that, it seems to be used as a “LOOK AT ME AND HOW RIGHTEOUS I AM!!” I don’t understand think I’ve ever seen a post saying “white men don’t rape”… but I’ve seen many, many.. “why are you fixated on this rape?!! White men rape!”

i have no idea why my comment was deleted.

But if you do not vet the foreign men coming into your country, this will keep happening. You have enough trouble with local men, and you think you can just let anyone remain who’ve not been vetted? Many of them will be from countries where abuse of women is not frowned upon …

Pretty much every time I had applied for a visa, I needed to submit a police background check (some for any country I’ve ever lived in). Why don’t you demand that?

Most rapes are carried out by white UK citizens. That is a fact, whether you like it or not. That does not mean we shouldn't care about rapes committed by asylum seekers or anyone else. We should. We should be doing everything possible to stop all rapes, regardless of the ethnicity or origins of the perpetrator. That is not whataboutery. That is addressing the problem of rape properly. Focussing on a particular group of rapists that account for less than 20% of all rapes is at best a partial solution.

And I do not claim to be any more righteous than anyone else on this thread.

What beggars belief is that one of the rapists is on the run for murder in Egypt. And now has lawyers acting to block any deportation because he would face the death penalty there. So we are landed with this piece of s**t.

If I were a foreign land I’d open the prison doors and tell all the inmates to f* off to Britain knowing there’d be no chance of them being sent back.

A lot of the world think we are still eating cucumber sandwiches.

No idea why your comment was deleted either.

The UK does require a criminal record certificate for anyone entering the country to work in social care, health or education. I would be in favour of extending that to other visa applicants. Of course, that won't help with those who enter the country illegally so it is not a complete solution, but that shouldn't stop us implementing something like this.

Whilst I agree the greatest absolute number of sexual crimes are committed by white British nationals ... there is a worrying per capita bias towards sexual assaults and rapes being committed by other ethnicities and nationalities (police, crime prosecution and judicial data).

You won’t want to believe it, but ethnic and religious differences will be a factor here. So a general ‘stop rape’ message won’t work when they A) don’t respect women B) think women outside their religion or community are fair game, because they are ‘unprotected’ by society.

You're definitely stuck with this guy. Wholesome and home grown.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cn4v93pgwmnt

As we always say, the locals are bad enough. Why import men from even worse cultures?

(but how is a life sentence only 14 years? Life should be life. UK is far too easy on criminals)

I don’t really understand the “locals do it to”
argument which I have heard from otherwise intelligent women.

Well yes but there are more of them so that will always be the case. If you look proportionally there is a problem with men from certain countries being far more likely
to sexually attack women. It’s not Chinese immigrants is it? This should form part of the assessment. Yes innocent men from those countries would lose out but that’s a price worth paying. Women here have had enough.

Should be sentenced, without means for appeal, to immediate Castration and Deportation.

Agree, and it’s always seems to be presented in such a smug, sanctimonious way.
bizarre, as in the post above.

And having travelled in Egypt as a young unaccompanied woman albeit dressing demurely believe me we do not want that shit culture over here. Never been more harassed in my life.

My friend and I ended up confined to our hotel room. I actually had travelled all round Mexico the previous year with not one grim incident. In Egypt it was literally every other man of any age hissing / spitting / grabbing / muttering obscenities. Disgusting country.