Guardian article on SAHMs

[branflake81]

here

"Work" has never been defined so narrowly in our culture.

LittleBella - she was not talking about ponies or expensive decor, she did not mention how people struggle to get on the property ladder due to escalating property prices. she did not mention any of that. She mentioned Beautiful homes. She made a sweeping generalisation that if you have a beautiful home/house, implies, to me at least, that you should not have aspirations, because if you do, you will mess your kids up.

I am not a minority. I am not wealthy, I have no ponies, nor dog, nor expensice decor. I will work hard, my DH will work hard, as most of those we know do.

I think thats my issue with the article. Sweeping generalisations with not enough clarity on what is meant.

But if we accept your definition, why can't the 'remuneration' be the money that you don't spend on childcare?

I'm sure you're not attaching negative connotations, but to say that SAHMs don't work certainly leaves an opening for others to do so, and perpetuates the idea that SAHM's are not 'contributing'

It would certainly have (caring for the children/home) at one time been seen as 'work'. Anything of benefit to the family by either gender was, whether paid or otherwise classed as work, pre our current society. The way things are now are not necessarily the right/only way. Much work is unpaid, doesn't stop it being work. Is voluntary work not work? Even if the person is doing the same as a paid employee? What about staying late at work but not being paid, what is that?

Hmm, I take your point Pavlov, but I think that's what's quite clever about the article. People can read what they want into lack of clarity, can't they? For one person "beautiful homes" immediately conjures up images of Llewellyn Poncey Cufflinks and all those home improvement programmes, for others it can just mean their home. (For me it's the former, which is how I read it. For you that's obviously not the case.)

I think that's partly the nature of newspaper articles tbh. There was something on the radio this morning about the return of the essay, and how as a written form it allows more detail and expansion, but there's no room for it in newspapers. Anyway that's another topic.

Rusty, remuneration is a specific term meaning payment for a task. I don't think it can really be applied in reverse. it's a bit like saying I'm being 'remunerated' for not having gone out and bought an xbox 360! I haven't! I may have saved some money which I could have spent... but I'm not being remunerated.
This is all getting a bit bogged down in semantics isnt it? By 'work', I mean the broad sense of engaging in employment, where you have objectives to achieve, and are paid to do it. I see 'voluntary work' as a bit of an oxymoron - I would prefer 'voluntary activity'. I'm not saying that being at home is necessarily easy. I was at home on maternity leave with 3 pre-schoolers, having sole responsibility and care, also doing the housework, shopping, budgeting etc. It wasnt easy, but I wouldnt describe it as 'work'. That's all.

Yes, but there's a difference between 'money I could have spent' (eg on an x-box) and 'money I would have to spend' (eg childcare)

What about payments in kind - eg the caretaker at school gets a reduced-rent house from the council with his job, but it certainly counts as remuneration.

Yes, it's semantics, but I think it's important because of the impression it can give to people less intelligent than you that SAHMs are not 'contributing'

To me, there is little point in 'working' for money just to spend it on some tat that I don't want/need for it to go back into the economy, assuming I can afford to live otherwise. Why sell yourself as a wage labourer (or some would say wage slave) if you don't need to? Why make yourself dependent on an employer if you don't want/need to? There are many good reasons not to engage in paid work. Time is money, that's what you sell to an employer. Time is therefore valuable, why not keep it for yourself/kids?

I was stunned to discover apparently the cost of childcare has increased by 33 per cent over the past few years. I knew it was bloody expensive but blimey, no wonder so many people say they can't actually afford to work.

LittleBella - I do agree with your point out newspapers not being an essay.

However, its an issue isnt it? As more people read newspaper articles than a critique on the fors and against of SAHM/WOHM etc.

So, people read these sweeping statements and form inaccurate opinions. Maybe not from one article, but its a drip drip effect isn't it?

Beautiful home = I think its not any better if it was meant as a large home, as that is presuming that if you are a WOHM you must be able to afford a large home, which is not true for the majority of WOHM.

Crikey, work isn't work unless you're being paid for it? Please let us knock that (silly) idea on the head now.

LittleBella - schroedinger was me, changed my name for fun on another thread, which incidently passed everyone by! Forgot to change back.

Message withdrawn

jellybeans- possibly true if you are a wage slave and your sole reason for working is to pay the bills. But many of us have jobs that are stimulating and interesting and we get a lot more out of them than that. Do you have children? What do you want for your children? Is education important to you? Do you want your children to become adults who have talents and skills which they can use to help them live independently? Because that's certainly what i want for mine. Of course, they may feel differently, leave school and choose a job which is simply 9 to 5 grind to pay the bills. But I do hope not.

I see tyed well out of the issues created by relying on your partners wage and the imbalance it can cause.

What's wrong with calling it work if it's paid, and 'activity' 'chore', whatever, if it's not??
I cooked the lunch just now. I could have paid someone to come in and do it for me. But I don't call it work!

I noticed pavlov!

I see they stayed - I mean!

findtheriver - you are very misguidede if you only qualify as work that which is paid for... and you cannot possibly be a feminist, since women contribute far more unpaid than paid work on this planet.

Are women on benefits SAHM? Are all SAHM the same? Or can you only really be one when your OH is out working for a reasonable wage?

Yes I have 4 children and want them to have choices and get a good education. I think it is important to follow what you enjoy though too and I don't think paid employment is the main thing in life and there are things such as caring for your children that some people find just as fullfilling as a paid career. But who of us are totally independant? Not many! Most working mums I know depend on BOTH wages and many of them depend on family to look after the kids. Generally we all depend on someone.

findtheriver, you don't stop being a parent ever, at work or not, the much is abvious surely?
But when you are at work you stop bring the person looking after your child.

It's all a spectrum kitty. When you're in the next room washing up and your child is watching cbeebies, you're not providing hands on care are you? When your child is at playgroup for the morning you're not. And when they're in school, other people are providing the care and education for a good 6 plus hours a day.

I think that if I am in the house with my children and am responsible for them then I am providing care, I am the adult in charge.
It is me to whom they come if they have a problem, need comforting etc.

If your child is at playgroup, creche etc you don't see them for hours.

If I am washing up in the next room I spend no more than 10 mins without contact with my children , usually much shorter time than that.

Those children at school are being cared for by the teacher because the law dictates it, sadly.

If you are washing up in one room and your child is watching TV in another, you are still the person responsible for your child, and having a responsible adult around is non-negotiable with a small child. You are still the person bringing up that child, albeit at the same time as performing other domestic work (the lot of most SAHMs).

Obviously, when a child is cared for outside its own home you might have a few spare hours. But, in all probability, you largely fill those hours with domestic work so that you can be available for your child when he/she is around.