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Jeezitneverends · 01/07/2025 14:18

FloofyBird · 01/07/2025 11:42

I felt the same. If she's innocent I can't even begin to imagine her trauma.

Adding another voice to this-I’ve followed it from the start and have never been the slightest bit convinced of her guilt

AtIusvue · 01/07/2025 14:18

I’m wondering how many of these posters claiming LL’s innocence would be happy for her to look after their own sick DCs/DGCs???

Anybody?……thought not.

RosesAndHellebores · 01/07/2025 14:19

If this case finally deals with NHS /Hospital Trust toxicity and obfuscation to challenge accountability, some good may come from it. It highlights the absolute rot at the heart of the system and the fact that those we trust have no respect for anyone beyond doctors and senior clinical management.

buffyajp · 01/07/2025 14:20

Chintzcardboard · 01/07/2025 14:13

Where were these experts during the trial? LL had opportunity to call witnesses … but chose not to.

Having experts after the fact, pointless.

and, that their testimony hasn’t been tested under oath during trial.

its all LL fantasy innocence …

Exactly especially as she had one of the best defence KC in the country. Appears mumsnet know better than him 😂

RefreshingMist · 01/07/2025 14:21

buffyajp · 01/07/2025 14:10

On the contrary she is one of the few who is. FACT number one being that Lucy has been found guilty of murder with attempts at appeal refused. None of the spurious so called contradictory evidence from a panel of other medics changes that. Professional’s disagree all the time. Lucy had one of the most eminent KC’s defending her who has won a lot of high profile cases and defended many celebrities. For those of you who their defence was a shambles you are implying he’s either incompetent or corrupt. As he’s clearly not the former tat only leaves the latter which is an extremely serious allegation to make so I would think again. Her conviction is absolutely safe and I’m confident and glad that she will never see the light of day free again.

Just look at the Sally Clark story. A most horrendous and devastating miscarriage of justice. She was a lawyer who could pay for robust legal support and understood the system.

The weight of "medical experts" is so great in a trial of this nature that it is far more about them that the legal brilliance (or otherwise) of someone's lawyer.

And having a KC at court does not mean they did all the preparatory work.

JustASmallBear · 01/07/2025 14:21

AtIusvue · 01/07/2025 14:18

I’m wondering how many of these posters claiming LL’s innocence would be happy for her to look after their own sick DCs/DGCs???

Anybody?……thought not.

I wouldn't want my sick baby anywhere near that hospital, let alone any staff. And the doctors on that unit appear to be grossly incompetent at best.

PutThe · 01/07/2025 14:21

AtIusvue · 01/07/2025 14:18

I’m wondering how many of these posters claiming LL’s innocence would be happy for her to look after their own sick DCs/DGCs???

Anybody?……thought not.

As a fence sitter, I wouldn't want her looking after my DC even if I knew for a fact she was wrongly convicted. Not with the amount of trauma she'd be dealing with and the inevitability of her being a target. I don't think there's any possible outcome of all this that would make me trust LL as a clinician now.

Would you trust any of the staff around her enough to look after yours?

samarrange · 01/07/2025 14:22

A lot will depend on the prosecution's case.

(a) If they go after the substantial number of other babies who died when everyone agrees that LL could not have had anything to do with it, thus showing that the whole ward was hugely unsafe due to staffing/hygiene issues, then LL's conviction immediately becomes unsafe. Her defence team has always argued that she was only selected as a suspect when someone noticed that she was often on duty while a lot of babies were dying. Not a single autopsy at the time raised suspicions of murder. The idea that you have a really dangerous unit and simultaneously a woman who wants to murder a lot of babies would not have got to "beyond a reasonable doubt" status with any jury.

(b) However, if the case is that these managers should have stopped LL earlier, then the CPS are going to have a very hard time getting a conviction, because the accused will point to those same autopsy reports and say "We are an evidence-based organisation, nothing suggested that any murders took place". (One reason why LL's defence is so difficult is that there is no suggestion that they arrested "the wrong person". Either she murdered the babies, or nobody did. That doesn't happen often in the criminal justice system.)

As a backup, in the latter case, the managers could presumably call in the testimony of the independent experts who don't think that LL murdered anybody (i.e., arguing that they are not guilty of failing to stop LL because she didn't do anything). But of course that would put them at risk of argument (a)...

Thedevilhasfinallycaughtupwithhim · 01/07/2025 14:22

AtIusvue · 01/07/2025 14:18

I’m wondering how many of these posters claiming LL’s innocence would be happy for her to look after their own sick DCs/DGCs???

Anybody?……thought not.

There are many people I wouldn’t trust with my newborn but also don’t believe they should spend the rest of their lives behind bars.

If she did it, she needs to be retried and all the new evidence to be cross examined.
She currently isn’t in prison under a safe conviction. Witnesses have been proven to have lied. They misinterpreted research which the doctor who authored that research is now fighting to be clarified. The doctor for the prosecution has now reneged and stated a number of the babies were not murdered.

If she can be proven, beyond reasonable doubt, with all the new information, to have murdered these babies, she should be in prison.
If she cannot, she should not be.

TizerorFizz · 01/07/2025 14:23

Corporate manslaughter are the key words here! Corporate being the hospital and man slaughter being not premeditated murder. So were these SLT members guilty of allowing a hospital staff member to commit murder by their incompetence and lack of robust procedures to investigate the heightened number of unexpected deaths? That’s what is being investigated and the arrests are about. They are not about what LL actually did. More about failure to react and stop her. It’s saying that, in their senior positions, they failed to protect the babies but didn’t murder them.

RosesAndHellebores · 01/07/2025 14:23

AtIusvue · 01/07/2025 14:18

I’m wondering how many of these posters claiming LL’s innocence would be happy for her to look after their own sick DCs/DGCs???

Anybody?……thought not.

I think you need to give people a chance before drawing conclusions. More broadly, I wouldn't want any member of that clinical team responsible for the care of a member of my family.

AtIusvue · 01/07/2025 14:23

JustASmallBear · 01/07/2025 14:21

I wouldn't want my sick baby anywhere near that hospital, let alone any staff. And the doctors on that unit appear to be grossly incompetent at best.

So LL at a different hospital under a different health authority?

Thought not.

JustASmallBear · 01/07/2025 14:24

RosesAndHellebores · 01/07/2025 14:19

If this case finally deals with NHS /Hospital Trust toxicity and obfuscation to challenge accountability, some good may come from it. It highlights the absolute rot at the heart of the system and the fact that those we trust have no respect for anyone beyond doctors and senior clinical management.

Sadly, I doubt it. The rot is too deep and widespread.

The entire thing needs dismantling and a new organisation or organisations to replace it.

RosesAndHellebores · 01/07/2025 14:24

JustASmallBear · 01/07/2025 14:24

Sadly, I doubt it. The rot is too deep and widespread.

The entire thing needs dismantling and a new organisation or organisations to replace it.

I completely agree.

JustASmallBear · 01/07/2025 14:25

AtIusvue · 01/07/2025 14:23

So LL at a different hospital under a different health authority?

Thought not.

This really isn't the gotcha you think it is.

AtIusvue · 01/07/2025 14:26

RosesAndHellebores · 01/07/2025 14:23

I think you need to give people a chance before drawing conclusions. More broadly, I wouldn't want any member of that clinical team responsible for the care of a member of my family.

Would you trust LL to look after your Dc/DGC?

I can assure you, nobody would have anywhere her near their sick children.

PutThe · 01/07/2025 14:28

@AtIusvue are you going to tell us whether you'd have any of the other clinicians around LL looking after yours?

I suspect there are a lot of us who wouldn't trust either.

allofusare · 01/07/2025 14:28

I’ll go out on a limb and say yes.

She is innocent; I’d bet my house on it.

Thedevilhasfinallycaughtupwithhim · 01/07/2025 14:30

AtIusvue · 01/07/2025 14:26

Would you trust LL to look after your Dc/DGC?

I can assure you, nobody would have anywhere her near their sick children.

Would you trust Katie Price with them?
Does that mean she should spend the rest of her life in prison?

“Thought not”

AtIusvue · 01/07/2025 14:32

PutThe · 01/07/2025 14:28

@AtIusvue are you going to tell us whether you'd have any of the other clinicians around LL looking after yours?

I suspect there are a lot of us who wouldn't trust either.

Ah see. No one at all saying they would let Lucy anywhere near their kids.

But she’s innocent right?

Not one person has come forward to say, that they would be happy for LL to look after their infant. You can try and change the subject but you refuse to answer the question. None of these ‘she’s innocent’ posters will. Because they know she’s guilty.

HoppingPavlova · 01/07/2025 14:32

@Jeezitneverends Adding another voice to this-I’ve followed it from the start and have never been the slightest bit convinced of her guilt

So, if not even the slightest, you would be fine with her looking after your neonate completely unsupervised, as would be normal for a neonatal nurse. If not, why not, given you don’t have the slightest doubt?

Lighteningstrikes · 01/07/2025 14:33

Good. Incompetence at its worst.

PutThe · 01/07/2025 14:34

AtIusvue · 01/07/2025 14:32

Ah see. No one at all saying they would let Lucy anywhere near their kids.

But she’s innocent right?

Not one person has come forward to say, that they would be happy for LL to look after their infant. You can try and change the subject but you refuse to answer the question. None of these ‘she’s innocent’ posters will. Because they know she’s guilty.

But I did answer the question, in the same post as I asked you one that you don't appear keen to answer. Admittedly I'm a fence sitter so maybe that doesn't count, but it was a clear answer nonetheless.

Would you trust the other clinicians around her to look after yours?

Mistyglade · 01/07/2025 14:34

There are far more facts pointing to her guilt but perhaps you haven’t read those. I worry about people like you I really do.

AtIusvue · 01/07/2025 14:34

PutThe · 01/07/2025 14:28

@AtIusvue are you going to tell us whether you'd have any of the other clinicians around LL looking after yours?

I suspect there are a lot of us who wouldn't trust either.

I’ll answer when those that have declared LL to be innocent answer the question, which they won’t. They will deflect.

NOT ONE PERSON ON HERE WOULD LET LL LOOK AFTER THEIR INFANT BECAUSE THEY KNOW SHE KILLED THOSE BABIES.

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