Three members of Lucy Letby hospital senior leadership team arrested.

[MissJoGrant]

Story here:

Yes this is my understanding of it.

But I thought they had tried to do something?

I think that is more likely. The police should have been called in much sooner.

There's a fantastic podcast out there called Was There Ever a Crime by John Sweeney who also reported on Sally Clark back in the day.
It's very eye opening. I'd strongly recommend listening to it.

There were so many failures in this hospital and now we also have the panel of experts who have reviewed the case and don't think there's a crime.
Its worth mentioning one of those experts is Dr Shoo Lee who's paper on embolism was referred to by the prosecution and used in her case.

I wouldn’t waste your time arguing with her worshippers on this thread @AtIusvue
she was found guilty and is guilty that’s that!
she’s exactly where she should be & will remain.

I don't know what's worse, your comprehension or your apparent belief that you're psychic.

Really, as others have pointed out, it's a stupid argument. Several of us have pointed out that we wouldn't want you anywhere near our kids, but that has nothing to do with whether you should go to prison.

She is still guilty as sin! The managers who let her get away with it for so long are next!

“mousy, plain girl next door type” certainly makes a change from “pretty blond woman” for reasons given why it’s wrong for people to believe LL deserves a fair trial.

Luckily there are many people who believe in justice for all regardless of hair or skin colour.

Spot on. There’s too many incompetent managers in the NHS because it’s not about what you know, it’s who you know! NHS needs a complete overhaul.

Because these arrests and if it ever got that far, convictions are in addition to LL. These are management personnel, it doesn't mean LL didn't commit the acts but it likely suggests that people/policies/procedures allowed her to carry on when she should have been stopped sooner. Corporate manslaughter is an entirely different crime.

And just for the record those who keep stating Dr Shoo lee & his paper; are you aware it wasn’t just his paper? It was Dr A Kieth Tranwells research paper also. Yet he hasn’t said anything was miss represented or said anything on the matter.
Yet Dr Shoo Lee tried arguing for defence at her first appeal and was refused as the paper hadn’t been updated which is what his claim is now apparently he’s updated it and brought in these “14 experts” although I’ve just checked and the paper still hasn’t been updated from their original one.

Here’s hoping Dr tranwells will be for prosecution if that bitch gets a retrial it’s his research after all.

Just like all the church leaders, bbc executives etc etc who covered up abuse scandals? People don’t have to be ‘evil’ to be interested in covering their own arses. The fact that they are aware of the seriousness and consequences of having made an initial mistakes makes it more likely they subsequently lied, not less.

This panel did not sit through the full trial, hear witness testimony, or review non-medical evidence.

The jury in a criminal court, after hearing both sides medical experts, found her guilty beyond reasonable doubt.

This "panels" findings, the scope of which was not clear, will likely form the basis of any appeal if they argue that a miscarriage of justice occurred. Until then she is legally guilty.

On the basis of her being legally guilty, the "thrust" of the recent arrests are that they failed to action on an increase in deaths which could have found the cause earlier.

Deaths have since since dropped back to normal levels, or do you have another theory/cover up that multiple Drs, nurses etc are all in on too?

If an appeal succeeds fair enough. That's what were have a legal system for.

Not sure that this implies any acceptance that she was being scapegoated. It may well be around their failure to act on whistleblowing around Letby.

• Cheshire police have expanded their enquiry to include deaths and non-fatal collapses of babies at C of Chester and LWH between 2012 and 2016, some of which occurred before Letby began working independently
• some cases under review did not involve Letby at all, suggesting systemic issues (e.g. staffing, equipment, clinical practices) which may have contributed to poor outcomes
• The investigation - operation duet - is examining whether hospital failings may have led to avoidable harm/death
• a report by Facere Melius found hospital management to be inexperienced, ignored clinical warnings and commissioned ineffective reviews. Letby aside, there are concerns that other warnings from clinicians were not appropriately acted upon
• the fact that there are quality and patient safety concerns in every maternity unit in the country suggests that C of Chester is overwhelmingly likely to have underlying problems that have occurred even without Letby’s involvement (in fact it would be a significant outlier if this was not the case). Coupled with a higher than average rate of harm one may assume that the issues at C of C are more serious than one has been led to believe thus far

I imagine that the managers will be calling the experts brought in by LL's defence team, who also agree that coincidence is the most probably explanation. It's going to be hard to get a new jury to convict the managers "beyond a reasonable doubt" with those 14 or so people versus Dewi Evans.

What a strange turn up for the books.

Interesting how this will play out.

I think Lucy Letby is guilty based on the trial verdict. It does not stop others being criminals and I will be interested to see what happens with these charges.

Two other instances where I think corporate manslaughter charges should happen- the Post Office scandal as it led directly to deaths, and Boris Johnson with others for those who died from the inaction in March 2020 over the pandemic (government is an employer).

She is guilty. She was found guilty by a jury. So all this people who will always think she is guilty?? It's nonsense.

Deaths have since since dropped back to normal levels, or do you have another theory/cover up that multiple Drs, nurses etc are all in on too?

The unit was downgraded around the same time as Letby was removed, so no longer dealt with the very sick babies. I don't know exactly when the deaths reduced, as in if it was when Letby was removed, or when the unit was downgraded, or if there was any overlap.

I'm openminded wrt her guilt. I do think the conviction is unsafe and at some point will be revisited.

Amen to your second paragraph 🙏🏻

That's the flaw in the jury system.

@LlynTegid It’s difficult to say the PO scandal led directly to deaths. Indirectly maybe. The PO didn’t administer drugs, have equipment that failed causing a direct death, or poison anyone etc. Not that I support the Post Office but here babies died in this hospital. Being cared for by their staff. The PO scandal is different.

Same for police staff.

Think I would actually.

I quite agree. If Letby was innocent Prof Tanswell (not Tranwells) would have come back from the dead to say so instead of leaving it to his living co-author.

Haven’t got any cats, there we go presumption about someone. None of the evidence at trial was actual proof, but circumstantial evidence. Others were hypothetical theories again not proof. Have you actually listened to the panel briefing that goes through each death the panel were better qualified than the prosecution witness, over feeding is one of the methods of death the babies would have just vomitted. I think I have more than better understanding of the data presented than you having worked in this field for 30 + years.