Three members of Lucy Letby hospital senior leadership team arrested.

[MissJoGrant]

Story here:

Those doctors made so many mistakes in the care of very ill little babies. 😪

There seems to be a common quality in the people on here who are 100% convinced of her guilt with an absolute refusal to even consider other perspectives/ evidence.

Agreed.

I wouldn’t let you anywhere near my children.

So you’d better pack your bags because that’s reason enough to send someone to spend the rest of their life in prison.

Toodalooo

There is isn't there, but we can't mention what that quality is!

Yes I'm not sure letting people near dc or not is the criteria for life long imprisonment.

Agree with pp on blocking any discussion over uncertainty.

Agreed, but the email cited in the OP's link (in the opening post) is allegedly 'emerged on Sunday night'.

The revelatory email, which emerged on Saturday, appears to cast doubt over events surrounding the nurse's actions in the lead up to one baby's death.

Dr Ravi Jayaram - the only medical witness to give evidence across both of Letby's trials - testified that the nurse was seen standing over Baby K's cot as the infant's condition deteriorated.

Taking the stand, the doctor said Letby failed to call for help as the newborn's condition continued to deteriorate, insisting the nurse had virtually been caught 'red handed'.

The new email, sent on May 4, 2017, to colleagues at the Countess of Chester Hospital, appears to cast significant doubts over that order of events.

...

Prior to the start of the police investigation, Dr Jayaram wrote: "At time of deterioration ... Staff nurse Letby at incubator and called Dr Jayaram to inform of low saturations."

The revelatory memo appears to contradict previous testimony, with the evidence not making it into documents handed to police prior to the start of the investigation.

This is of significant interest to all parties.

would you let LL look after your kids like the other poster. You haven’t answered.

I answered exactly when I said I would.

They didn’t kill them, that was Lucy.

@TheAutumnCrow

The article in th OP is the wrong one. It's from April.

The correct article is the BBC one further into the thread.

It’s terrifying that people like you will be allowed to serve on juries.

'Malice a forethought' it not a thing in UK murder. Murder in the UK relates to intention, you will be guilty of murder if you intend to kill or seriously injure another.

Manslaughter is where that intention is lacking, there are various types of manslaughter. if LL intended to kill or seriously injure the babies then she is guilty of murder, if the hospital covered it up or failed to act, it can be guilty of gross negligent manslaughter.

Yip, we keep the baby killers where they belong. Prison.

Exactly.

I can't believe people are glossing over this.

It's hugely significant and goes right to the integrity of her conviction

Surely we want to ensure the right people are held accountable, not just pick a person to hate on irrespective of the facts.

Lets just see how this plays out, before these arrests anyone who suggested that LL was not guilty or there was a cover up would have got shot down in flames.

But here we are, more arrests made - I don't think anyone can predict the next twist in this - but at least its clear now its not all as simple as it seemed.

“Just before anyone starts wading in about shit NHS managers - I understand at least two of these senior managers are actually clinicians turned manager”

And thereby is the problem - managers who quite simply are incapable of managing. Money and status is obviously what calls them into management but why doctors. nurses. and those who trained in other caring professions feel they have the breadth of knowledge necessary to manage such a complex organisation is just delusional to me. They can obviously talk the talk at interview but putting theory into practice is a whole different ball game.
Before anyone slates me for saying this I come from a family of nhs caring professionals all of whom have chosen to remain on the shop floor so to speak, and I imagine my dad - now retired - was on his own in being firstly a fully qualified NHS manager and then training as a mature student a qualified nurse.
Times have changed since those days but back then Hospital Management was a career in itself with its own qualification.
Perhaps the time has come to give consideration to reverting back to a management structure where those in positions of responsibility truly know the complexities of the organisation they are being paid handsomely to manage.

Yes I really, really have. Immediately, rather than with half a dozen posts trying not to
Scroll up to my post at 14.21

I wouldn't let anyone look after mine who couldn't read the notes...

https://www.private-eye.co.uk/special-reports/lucy-letby

It's an interesting read. I note the parts where nurses are requesting cctv to protect themselves from accusations of malpractice.

The squabbling about whether or not LL would be allowed to look after your sick babies is so stupid because it has to assume that she’s been released and would be allowed to practice again. In which case she wouldn’t be killing babies, would she

As it is, I don’t think she’s guilty anyway but if she was she’s hardly likely to confirm that guilt by killing again!

Literally no one who works for the NHS will be suprised by this.
it is the most corrupt organisation in the UK

The fact that they didn't immediately call the police when Letby was accused of harming babies but instead tried to deal with it in-house could itself constitute gross negligence.

I just found this www.theguardian.com/uk-news/ng-interactive/2023/aug/18/lucy-letby-timeline-attacks-babies-when-alarm-raised, from just after the trial. It seems that indeed, various doctors went to the management with their suspicions. But the response from management was that the apparent involvement of LL was just coincidence, and that is also LL's defence.

So to get a conviction for gross negligence manslaughter, the CPS would presumably have to show that it was wholly unreasonable for the managers to argue that it was just coincidence. I imagine that the managers will be calling the experts brought in by LL's defence team, who also agree that coincidence is the most probably explanation. It's going to be hard to get a new jury to convict the managers "beyond a reasonable doubt" with those 14 or so people versus Dewi Evans.

If there is a trial on this, and if the prosecution is along the lines of my point (b), and if the managers are found not guilty, this is going to further open up the can of worms.

The way the different players aligned themselves was interesting; on one side, the doctors accusing her; on the other, the nursing team who didn't see a problem, the head of nursing who was Lucy's personal bestie, and the slt who really wanted it swept under the carpet and were worried about the bullying complaint she had brought against the doctors. In May 2017 she was within a gnat's whisker of being put back on the unit, - but then the police investigation at last started in earnest.

The slt would probably have got away with this as well, at least for a while, as the unit had been downgraded, so problematic deliveries were no longer being sent to CoCH.

My two penn'orth: guilty but didn't have a fair trial. Her defence was utterly woeful.

@NotDavidTennantThis will be about the processes they used to evaluate the situation with the babies and LL when concerns were raised. Corporate manslaughter is about failure to do something which led to death. So managers within an organisation can be held responsible if they failed to act when faced with a very serious situation which needed greater vigilance and professional investigation instead of blind support as one manager gave. Also much earlier I would think too.

Aww. So you wouldn’t want LL to look after the kids because if all the trauma she’s been through? Bull.
It’s because she murders babies, that’s why. At least be honest.

What happens if the new accused deny manslaughter on the grounds new evidence says the babies weren't murdered but died of poor medical care and doctors negligence as shown in the hopefully re examined medical records and witness statements.