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Original poster

America - take over

184 replies

littlebilliie · 01/02/2025 23:33

There is a LOT going on in America today

From Washington Post

"Billionaire Elon Musk’s deputies have gained access to a sensitive Treasury Department system responsible for trillions of dollars in U.S. government payments after the administration ousted a top career official at the departmentt_, according to three people who spoke on the condition of anonymity to describe government deliberations."

OP posts:
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6
IThoughtHeWasWithYou · 02/02/2025 10:42

Zonder · 02/02/2025 08:07

I'm married to a scientist. He told me last night there are strong rumours that Trump is getting rid of PubMed. That's a free, reliable resource that holds mountains of scientific research. The impact of that will be huge.

If this is true it would be a disaster. I can’t see how that could happen.

Original poster
littlebilliie · 02/02/2025 10:43

@SassK read the mainstream media now in the US this is massive sweeping changes.

Air traffic control news only broadcast on x

Medical research deleted on all government databases

The broadcast of disease outbreaks to be limited (look at Kansas)

Exit from WHO

All US Aid webpages from government deleted

Plus the Treasury and the downloads of millions of people's data going God knows where

The list goes on.

Sorry it's a bit hysterical for you

OP posts:
heldinadream · 02/02/2025 10:55

SassK · 02/02/2025 10:41

No. I do though recall the same threat to democracy wails at the outset of his first presidency. I imagine it will fizzle out, in the same manner it did then.

Show quote history

He was asleep in his last term compared to what's happening in this one already.

wonderstuff · 02/02/2025 10:59

I think last time was pretty scary, his supporters briefly took over the Capitol building and people died trying to stop them.

This time they seem more organised. Hitler was democratically elected, now the USA has a far more mature and robust democratic system than Germany did in the 1930s, but even so these people are well resourced and determined. They didn’t think they would win last time.

GrammarTeacher · 02/02/2025 11:07

SassK · 02/02/2025 10:41

No. I do though recall the same threat to democracy wails at the outset of his first presidency. I imagine it will fizzle out, in the same manner it did then.

Show quote history

It didn’t though - did you miss what happened at the Capitol? He’s playing a LONG game. He has a militia who will support him and the billionaires on his side.

ssd · 02/02/2025 11:26

Thank you for explaining

This sounds scary

SassK · 02/02/2025 11:46

The absurdism is that, if there was a threat to democracy (which there isn't), the case for democratic threat actually coming from anti Trump rhetoric is the more compelling (ie using the 'threat' of Trump to make people comply). His opponents feel rather close to becoming full blown authoritarian themselves...!
I'm saying no more, because (repeat for those at the back) there is no threat to democracy. It's nonsense, embarrassing nonsense when you consider it beyond sensationalist headlines.

username299 · 02/02/2025 11:49

I don't believe he'll get very far. I think there'll be push back.

Muddypawsies · 02/02/2025 12:00

Unescorted · 02/02/2025 09:11

@sad all federal payments in the US are made by a single department. The worry is that if a single person (in this case Elon Musk) has control of that process they could stop sending payments. Either to targeted groups / organisations or unilaterally. So they could stop all Medicaid payments ... Meaning that only people with comprehensive health insurance could get medical care. They could stop all food stamp payments. They could stop all payments to a particular country eg UK for use of military bases.

It would be very disruptive but effective way of ensuring that the function of government did exactly what is asked by that person... Bypassing the elected officials who should make those decisions.

Thank you for explaining. So, am I right in thinking that by giving one man (Musk) the power to control all federal payments - eg giving Musk the power to stop certain federal payments as and when he wants to - Trump is preventing federal officials from influencing what happens? Musk (and Trump) can now do whatever they want to federal payments without officials reining them in? This sounds very dangerous, but I can see them spinning it as efficiency.

gingerlybread · 02/02/2025 12:08

Musk now has control of the government bank which issues all benefits and pensions.
This is through his new DOGE ( geddit) department.
He's removed all the civil servants and instated his x employees.
Just as proposed here, the us government has the right to access bank accounts belonging to pension and benefit recipients.
So essentially Musk can now deny funds to any opponents. Watch this space for benefits paid in bitcoin.

GrammarTeacher · 02/02/2025 12:31

SassK · 02/02/2025 11:46

The absurdism is that, if there was a threat to democracy (which there isn't), the case for democratic threat actually coming from anti Trump rhetoric is the more compelling (ie using the 'threat' of Trump to make people comply). His opponents feel rather close to becoming full blown authoritarian themselves...!
I'm saying no more, because (repeat for those at the back) there is no threat to democracy. It's nonsense, embarrassing nonsense when you consider it beyond sensationalist headlines.

Trump is ignoring checks and balances and riding rough shod over states’ rights.
When he lost he encouraged his supporters to attack the Capitol.
What would he have to do for you to realise the threat he and his team pose!

Echobelly · 02/02/2025 12:31

And of course we have no idea who 'Musk's aides' are. They could be Putin's nephew and Xi Jinping's best mate for all we know. Nor do I imagine there have been any security checks on Musk.

SassK · 02/02/2025 13:07

GrammarTeacher · 02/02/2025 12:31

Trump is ignoring checks and balances and riding rough shod over states’ rights.
When he lost he encouraged his supporters to attack the Capitol.
What would he have to do for you to realise the threat he and his team pose!

Show quote history

What would he have to do for you to realise the threat he and his team pose!

Be about 40 years younger, and more competent (his competence is a slight concern. Though - when you consider it in the context of his predecessor requiring to have the majority of his words scripted - not terribly worrying).

The capitol attack wasn't the organised attempt Trump's opponents frame it as either. It was relatively significant unrest, more of a rabble if anything (organised insurgency tends to involve being armed).

Extiainoiapeial · 02/02/2025 13:14

SassK · 02/02/2025 10:41

No. I do though recall the same threat to democracy wails at the outset of his first presidency. I imagine it will fizzle out, in the same manner it did then.

Show quote history

No it won't.

He had a huge amount in his Administration who held him back, put the brakes on him. Every. Single. One. Of them has gone

He only has those blindly loyal to him. It means he can do what he wants, aided and abetted by Vance and Musk.

Musk is the equivalent of the villain in a James Bond movie
Unelected and taking over the largest free country in the 🌎

Extiainoiapeial · 02/02/2025 13:14

SassK · 02/02/2025 10:41

No. I do though recall the same threat to democracy wails at the outset of his first presidency. I imagine it will fizzle out, in the same manner it did then.

Show quote history

No it won't.

He had a huge amount of people in his Administration back then who held him back, put the brakes on him. Every. Single. One. Of them has gone

He only has those blindly loyal to him. It means he can do what he wants, aided and abetted by Vance and Musk.

Musk is the equivalent of the villain in a James Bond movie
Unelected and taking over the largest free country in the 🌎

gingerlybread · 02/02/2025 13:24

@SassK it's not Trump that worries me, it's the demons he's unleashed.
It all brings to mind Good Omens version of hell. And not in a good way.

Unescorted · 02/02/2025 13:26

@Muddypawsies the federal workers act as directed by government. They can be sacked if they don't. They shouldn't have any influence over what they are directed to do. The influence should be from the elected officials. What Elon Musk is wants / is getting is the ability to turn off the payments if he (or Trump) want them turned off without the check and balances of the Congress or Senate having debated the issue. Technically the head of the payments agency could do the same but they would quickly lose their job.

Thankfully in the UK each department and delivery agency in the UK makes it's own payments. So it is not a situation that would happen here.

Youngheartsalittletogetherness · 02/02/2025 13:31

He was always going to be worse second time round.
Every personal slight real or imaginary score was going to be settled whether that benefits America or just Trump remains to be seen.

SnakesAndArrows · 02/02/2025 13:34

littlebilliie · 02/02/2025 10:43

@SassK read the mainstream media now in the US this is massive sweeping changes.

Air traffic control news only broadcast on x

Medical research deleted on all government databases

The broadcast of disease outbreaks to be limited (look at Kansas)

Exit from WHO

All US Aid webpages from government deleted

Plus the Treasury and the downloads of millions of people's data going God knows where

The list goes on.

Sorry it's a bit hysterical for you

Medical research deleted on all government databases

Please could you direct me to a source of this? My understanding is that the deletion is from websites not actual databases, which is appalling and terrifying enough as it is.

The deletion of actual databases… I have no words at the moment.

LemonBossy · 02/02/2025 13:37

I agree about the long game. He's had four years to plan this very carefully with the advantage of now knowing how things work.

It's pretty terrifying stuff.

Chersfrozenface · 02/02/2025 13:41

SnakesAndArrows · 02/02/2025 13:34

Medical research deleted on all government databases

Please could you direct me to a source of this? My understanding is that the deletion is from websites not actual databases, which is appalling and terrifying enough as it is.

The deletion of actual databases… I have no words at the moment.

Show quote history

According to the BBC News site, it's just particular web pages that have been taken down. In the case of the CDC, to be amended.

Edit to add word for clarity.

happinessischocolate · 02/02/2025 13:50

Musk is the equivalent of the villain in a James Bond movie
Unelected and taking over the largest free country in the 🌎

Probably won't be a free country in 4 years

Zonder · 02/02/2025 13:54

SassK · 02/02/2025 10:41

No. I do though recall the same threat to democracy wails at the outset of his first presidency. I imagine it will fizzle out, in the same manner it did then.

Show quote history

You can imagine all you like. That doesn't remove the very real examples of his insane presidency mark 2. Odd to comment like this without actually bothering to read the thread. Easier to stick your head in the sand I guess.

Zonder · 02/02/2025 13:56

SassK · 02/02/2025 13:07

What would he have to do for you to realise the threat he and his team pose!

Be about 40 years younger, and more competent (his competence is a slight concern. Though - when you consider it in the context of his predecessor requiring to have the majority of his words scripted - not terribly worrying).

The capitol attack wasn't the organised attempt Trump's opponents frame it as either. It was relatively significant unrest, more of a rabble if anything (organised insurgency tends to involve being armed).

Show quote history

Ok I see where you're coming from now. I'll stick to reading other people's posts.

MedSchoolRat · 02/02/2025 14:04

fwiw, I have to point out that Scopus inventories most of the same articles that PubMed does. Scopus is not free but most Unis subscribe to Scopus search facility and getting a 30 day subscription for others is not too expensive. Most the publishing houses have their own search engines & some enterprising sod will probably be able to write unifying open source code to search them all at once if necessary.

A lot of science has never been indexed in pubmed because not human health related, anyway.

It's still foolish to shut down Pubmed. It can't cost a lot compared to most govt services & Pubmed sets gold standards for good reasons, helps everyone.

MMWR publishes sometimes important breaking news in epidemiology. MMWR being missing worries me a lot more than rumours about pubmed.