There are two things I find hard to believe about this horrible Austria story.

[Kathyis6incheshigh]

Neither of them to do with 'how did he do it?' 'how come no-one suspected anything?' etc.

The first is that he was able to adopt 3 kids without his rape conviction being taken into account. I mean, a statute of limitation is all very well for minor crimes, but for rape?

The second is that unless he is done for murder in some way with regard to the twin baby that died, despite all the rapes and having imprisoned 4 people for a total of 75 years, the maximum sentence is will get (according to all the papers I have read) is 15 years. I don't normally go around calling for tougher sentences etc, but WHAT?

AIBU to think there is some kind of institutional misogyny at work here?

• the chief prosecutor has indicated they will be applying for a change in sentencing practice in Lower Austria, for this case alone, so that it will be clear that he won't be released at all.

It is entirely unrealistic to bet on the presumption that no-one else knew, provided support, or simply turned a blind eye. Small towns in provences are notorious for secrecy over shame. I also read that a lodger states another man went into the cellar.

Male family members should bear further scrutiny.

That's interesting Pan, about them applying for a change in sentencing practice. The fact that they need to do that at all - doesn't that rather support my initial point that this seems to be a society which takes rape rather lightly?

I agree that the police are being absurdly premature in making these confident statements about him acting alone. At this stage we simply don't know.

According to the timeline, Elisabeth didn't conceive her first child until 4 years after he locked her in the cellar. So does that mean he used condoms until then? And then decided not to bother?

And is it possible for advanced tooth decay to poison your system so that you suffer kidney failure? I think I read somewhere that the oldest daughter,the one in hospital, has lost all her teeth.

This whole thing is just so unbearably sick and awful.

Equally though we don?t know what the police know both from their interviews with him and his daughter, we only know what has been printed in the media. Presumably Elizabeth has spoken to the police as well? So maybe she has told them that she only saw her father in all that time.

I?m not sure though that the fact this went undetected for so long is down to police incompetence. The girl hadn?t gone missing, she had written a letter saying that she had run away. And although just delivering babies on the doorstep is definitely out of the ordinary, again, it is said that she had written letters to explain why she was unable to look after them. It was obvious she was still alive, so why should someone assume that the father was keeping her in a cellar? It?s just not the kind of conclusion you would normally jump to Is it?

Am a bit that he was allowed to adopt though given he aledgedly had a previous conviction for rape.

They were saying on 5 live yesterday that he is being assessed by psychiatrists because he is apparently very distressed. And he went on to say that ?they?re assessing whether that distress is because he was caught, or whether it?s because of the hurt he now realizes he?s caused his family. They think it?s because of the hurt he has caused his family? wtf? Shouldn?t he have thought about that 30 or so years ago before he started sexually abusing his 11 yo daughter? .

Pania I don?t think anything can be assumed from the fact Elizabeth didn?t conceive for 4 years. There are lots of reasons why women don?t conceive quickly, and I would imagine it?s highly likely that the stress of being locked up in a cellar and deprived of light and contact with the outside world might be sufficient enough to prevent ovulation, for a time anyway.

You would have thought it might take a while for the family to be ready to tell the police the whole story, though.

News today seems to be suggesting he had committed a whole series of rapes

I used to think that American "life means life" no exercise, solitary confinement type jails were horrific but not in this case. If the Austrians are stuck for ideas, they could always offer to pay the Americans to stick him in one of these. Any case I've ever followed up with one of these long term inmates shows that they really suffer from a harsh jail sentence-much more so than the death penalty in a way (not that I can speak from experience). I think this narcissistic, evil bastard would be destroyed by a taste of his own medicine.

This is quite informative....

Update 01.05.08

very

it really irritates me that people think that a lodger coming forward now is evidence that someone else was involved. He's gone to the papers not the police.. If this guy really had suspicions of any kind he would have gone to the police ages ago.

And the 'taking food into the cellar' stuff. If you saw a neighbour bringing a load of food in, would your first, or even second, thought be 'oh he must be hiding a family down there? - NO!

so why does everyone assume other people would have known.

I just wish people would stop reading the (repetitive) crap in te epapers and realise that most of what they are reading comes from people who are trying to make a quick buck or get some notoriety by going to the papers. Leave it to the police to sort out, not the f**g sun!