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Original poster

There are two things I find hard to believe about this horrible Austria story.

83 replies

Kathyis6incheshigh · 01/05/2008 13:29

Neither of them to do with 'how did he do it?' 'how come no-one suspected anything?' etc.

The first is that he was able to adopt 3 kids without his rape conviction being taken into account. I mean, a statute of limitation is all very well for minor crimes, but for rape?

The second is that unless he is done for murder in some way with regard to the twin baby that died, despite all the rapes and having imprisoned 4 people for a total of 75 years, the maximum sentence is will get (according to all the papers I have read) is 15 years. I don't normally go around calling for tougher sentences etc, but WHAT?

AIBU to think there is some kind of institutional misogyny at work here?

OP posts:

PinkTulips · 01/05/2008 15:04

people can have more than one perversion.

maybe kids and domination both do it for him, she was most attractive during the period when she was a child and he could dominate her but the domination and imprisonment were enough to arouse him in later years.

tis also possible that the 5 year old isn't hers but her older daughters, we don't know all the details yet and the DNA tests were only to establish paternity afaik, not maternity.

orangehead · 01/05/2008 15:06

she is in hospital for kidney failure

suzywong · 01/05/2008 15:07

no one else think it's unlikely he delivered those kids alone?

belgo · 01/05/2008 15:07

I suspect his daughter delivered her babies alone. Very dangerous, but unfortunately many women have done it.

spicemonster · 01/05/2008 15:09

Starlight - they might have changed the rules since your DS was born but when I registered by DS last March, they said his dad would have to be present to be on the birth certificate. Maybe they don't expect men to lie about who the mother is?

Freckle - they said on the radio yesterday that she is in a coma but I don't know why.

justkeepswimming · 01/05/2008 15:09

i hadn't even thought of the midwifery aspect - she was lucky () to have got through 6 (with one set of twins) births with no problems!
well i mean one twin died so there were problems but i hope ykwim

Original poster

Kathyis6incheshigh · 01/05/2008 15:10

Lots of women have had babies in isolated situations with just a husband - eg pioneers in the American west. If it didn't go wrong, he got lucky. Though, of course, one of the twins died - not sure how near to the birth that was.

OP posts:

oiFoiF · 01/05/2008 15:27

I must admit freckle the same thought had crossed my mind with regard to the youngest children being his great grandchildren/children

I find it hard to believe too suzy but someone has fitted a bathroom down there too.....

Original poster

Kathyis6incheshigh · 01/05/2008 15:31

The bathroom may have been done openly when it was being built as a nuclear bunker.

OP posts:

TheDevilWearsPrimark · 01/05/2008 15:37

What worried me is how tey are handled now.
A psychologist on the radio suggested that they shouldn't have brought them straight out of the cellar and should have gradually introduced the concept of 'outside'.

Certainly intensive police questioning is damaging right now. I know they want the full story but have some respect for their mental health fgs.

It reminds me of a case in the usa where a girl was kept locked in a room until she was 11 and was discovered. She had people all over her like hounds as she was deemed a prime candidate for experiments. Obviously you can't research sensory deprivation to such an extent, so when it comes about through tragedy they want to exploit it.

TheDevilWearsPrimark · 01/05/2008 15:42

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genie_(feral_child)

Original poster

Kathyis6incheshigh · 01/05/2008 15:46

What a sad story TheDevil.
It sounds like part of the issue (as well as her being treated first and foremost as an experimental subject) was that funding was suddenly withdrawn. Hope something similar doesn't happen here - all too easy to imagine the family getting financially abandoned after everyone loses interest.

OP posts:

LittleBella · 01/05/2008 15:58

God that Genie story is heartbreaking. How can anyone punish a child for vomiting FGS? WTF is the matter with people?

franke · 01/05/2008 16:16

Agree with cestlavie. Puts me in mind also with the failings here over Fred West - he got away with it for years.

With regard to the max. sentence, I presume he will get full tariff for each crime of which there are several here. I can't believe he will ever be released, surely? There would be uproar. Here in Germany I believe there is a seemingly low maximum sentence, but there is provision in the law for keeping people in jail in exceptional circs. (although I could be wrong there)

Mercy44andahalf · 01/05/2008 16:27

I'm wondering what on earth did the wife think when he kept appearing with abandoned?

(is the wife also Elisabeth's mother?)

NomDePlume · 01/05/2008 16:28

Given that the man in question is into his seventies, I wouldn't have thought he'd come out alive, even if he only serves 15

Mercy44andahalf · 01/05/2008 16:28

abandoned babies

Flame · 01/05/2008 16:38

As much as I am normally against death penalty etc - don't you really just want to lock him in a cellar and let really bad people rape him on a daily basis?

ajandjjmum · 01/05/2008 16:44

Yes Flame - anything is too good for him.

Original poster

Kathyis6incheshigh · 01/05/2008 17:09

Franke - you may be right about max sentence - it is something I have read in the paper but they might well have got it wrong. Hope so.

OP posts:

Pixel · 01/05/2008 20:41

There might be another reason why they didn't try to get out. The door had a combination lock on it and he was the only one who knew the code. If he locked the door on his way in they wouldn't be able to get out even if they attacked him or something. From the pictures I've seen in the paper the door seems to be in a little narrow corridor so they wouldn't have been able to hide and then jump him before he could shut the door, even if they had enough strength of spirit left to try.

Ripeberry · 01/05/2008 21:20

But what gets me also, he went on quite a few month long holidays.
WHY? for the love of God, did no-one think, lets see whats in that basement?
Do these people have no imagination? are they robots?.
If anyone told me NOT to go somewhere i would be itching to find out WHY?! but then thats me.

beansprout · 01/05/2008 21:25

Does anyone know what the risks to the children are of their grandfather being their father (medically/physically speaking I mean)?

DrNortherner · 01/05/2008 21:33

I simply can not imagine being imprisoned for that long

I read today that Elisabeth made up fantasy stories about why thehy lived in a cellar to somehow shield her kids from the truth.

Thinking about this earlier and someone at work said if it were her she would have killed her kids as babies so they would not have to endure a living hell. I wonder if she was somehow glad of the company and teh distraction of her children.

How old were the 3 kids when he removed them to live above ground do we know?

Original poster

Kathyis6incheshigh · 01/05/2008 21:33

But Ripeberry, there were 5 rooms before you even got to the hidden door, so even if someone had thought they'd go to look, they might well have had a good look round and concluded they'd seen everything there was to see. It seems like it was very well hidden.

OP posts:

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