Women of Afghanistan

[LadeOde]

I know this isn't news really but don't understand how a country can do this to its own citizens. This is a regime of total hate towards women;
The latest policy being that women are not allowed to hear other women's voices. This is in addition to an already long bizarre list:

Source: Telegraph.

It’s just horrendous.

The list of 'do nots' seems to have disappeared from my post. Ill try again.

I read about this today and it's outrageous.

Drive a car
Speak in public
Speak loudly inside your house
Travel alone
Own a smartphone
Wear bright clothes
Wear high heels
Go to high school or university
Sing
Read the Koran aloud in public
Look at men they do not know
Attend a protest
Go to the gym
Go to the park
Work in the civil service
Ride in a taxi
Go abroad
Show their faces in public
Speak to a male doctor
Play sport

Source -Telegraph

Phew! got there in the end.

All these bizarre policies are apparently, the brain child of the 'Minister for Virtue'.

I'm wondering how on earth this ends. These women are now prisoners, with every aspect of their lives controlled.

I abhor war but surely this is the time for international intervention. It's completely inhumane.

I don't understand why the international governments are all silent. Minister for virtue has also said he wants to bring back stoning of women publicly

Omg this is horrendous. What about human rights?

I have no idea what part Amnesty are playing in this. Every power around the world seems to be keeping schtum about it. It's as if something is being planned in the background and we're all going to hear about it soon.

The truth is that people in the west don't care, because the victims aren't white.

The minute there is any intervention, particularly from 'the west' expect seething protest marches and a slew of raging Guardian articles about western hypocrisy.

I note it's the Telegraph again who are leading on these stories. The Graun never seem to break these stories despite having a women's section and being progressive

There was western intervention but Biden pulled the US troops out leaving the best weaponry in the world for the Taliban to use and cease control.

For 20 years the women were living free to have full education and hold high level jobs… now they’re confined to a living hell.

Women are killing themselves rather than live under intolerable oppression.

For ref there are quite a few threads relating to the Taliban's war on women across Mumsnet

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/feminism/5160785-britain-and-the-us-are-complicit-in-the-talibans-oppression-of-women,

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/feminism/5163619-afghan-women-meet-in-albania-in-act-of-defiance-against-taliban-crackdown,

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5150205-afghan-womens-voices,

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/feminism/5193597-in-scotland-afghan-women-pursue-their-dreams-of-becoming-doctors,

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5152942-what-can-we-do-horrified-by-what-is-happening-to-women-in-afghanistan-and-want-to-do-something,

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/politics/5165063-afghan-women-fear-the-worst

There are others

Realistically though what can be done?

The way women are treated is appalling, but it’s no more appropriate for us to go into another country and force change than it would be for another country to do the same here.

America spent 20 years replacing the Taliban with the Taliban.

It's disgusting how the world has abandoned Afghanistan when economic interests of those countries is not invested.

As well as women, those poor souls who worked with international governments and are now seen as enemies of the state, never getting the chance to get out.

It's hell on earth.

Yeah this has been going on for a while

Feels like a situation where 'the West' needs to swoop in and save all these women. All the wars we have, stupid ideas, mem fighting over nothing, but to save these women Aka humans? and we just don't /can't/won't mobilise.

I cannot imagine how failed these women feel.

As a pp said, if these women were blonde and oh, also Christian, it wouldn't be happening

It's heartbreaking and terrifying - I also started a thread on this expecting hundreds of responses but didn't get that many. The lack of international response is the worst part - these regimes inc Iran, Pakistan, etc where women are hugely oppressed are churning out children who experience that as normal life then emigrate to the west.
My fear is those male immigrants coupled with Andrew Tate followers and incels are just creating huge numbers of women haters. The level of violence, idle misogyny and aggressive sexualisation of women and girls is growing.
Why aren't people seeing this is a massive risk to peace in the world?

I hope you're right about plans behind the scenes. Afghanistan is notoriously resistant to foreign interference, though - I read Christina Lamb's books last year and, while I very much enjoyed her showing why she loved the country so much, she also has pretty good insight into how it manages to wriggle out of everything. Her despair for Afghan women is palpable.

As well as the country's long ingrained and agile resilience, the Taliban controls enormous resources including oil. It has major deals with China, other governments and probably the USA (google 'Taliban oil').

Bombing them doesn't work, ground attacks don't work, they don't care about economic sanctions and don't give a fuck what anybody thinks of them. They are absolute bastards and it would take some very clever people to make a dent in their arrogance. I hope those clever people are working on it.

That sounds an interesting and important read @Garlicbest, which of her books would you recommend please.

It's truly dreadful and I can't believe there is not more outcry and protest against this across the world.

Regarding Amnesty they are a bit busy at the moment as they are an ‘Intervenor’ in the For Women Scotland case (26th March - U.K. Supreme Court). Obviously opposing For Women Scotland (plus Scottish Lesbians and Sex Matters!!).

Of important to Amnesty is to ensure the Supreme Court knows that transwomen are the most marginalised and oppressed group in the world - clearly this is far more important than the real biological women of Afghanistan!

*importance!

The US only relatively recently took its troops out after they were in Afghanistan for 18 years.

There was constant pressure from the US public to bring the troops home as they were fighting and dying in a country that clearly did not want them there.

The U.K. contributed forces that patrolled in Helmand province and again there were constant deaths and injuries which were generally badly received.

There was British pressure to leave as well - it was seen as a "colonization project" and there were articles and marches to get the British to leave.

Afghanistan is a sovereign country.

I strongly disagree with what is being done to women there but the only alternative is a permanent US presence (the British army is actually not capable of it, either in terms of men or money) and it being turned into a US colony.

The US don't want it.

It’s dystopian, the fact is unless Afghan men do something about it then nothing is going to happen. It’s miserable.

Do most Afghan men support this or is it just a few, but those few have guns etc so everyone has to go along with what they want? Surely they can’t all support it? What about women with sons, it must be heartbreaking to see your own son turn into the kind of person who would stop women from speaking in public.

Are there any Afghan women who are able to speak out? It would be good to help them by sharing what they have to say. I follow an Afghan artist on Instagram Shamsia Hassani, her paintings are amazing. There’s also an American woman who runs an animal shelter in Kabul, Kabul animal rescue. She could go back to the US but stays in Afghanistan, I can’t imagine being brave enough to do that.