Women of Afghanistan

[LadeOde]

I know this isn't news really but don't understand how a country can do this to its own citizens. This is a regime of total hate towards women;
The latest policy being that women are not allowed to hear other women's voices. This is in addition to an already long bizarre list:

Source: Telegraph.

I think this is very true.

I notice the risks I would consider acceptable for myself and situations that I would have got involved in has changed since I had children.

I seem hardwired to see always making it home to my children the absolute priority.
And I am not facing a torn country run by violent religion backed women haters.

I didn't know that and I am disappointed to read it.

Not in any Muslim countries that I have lived in. Music is very popular and very loud!

IMO, a really good start would be for other countries to band together and refuse to grant asylum to men from all countries where women are mistreated. These men are complicit and need to stay there. If they don’t like it, they can change it.

Some of my relatives live in Germany and have mentioned attacks and vile, nasty treatment of - and disrespect toward - many women by male afghan refugees, and refugees from other countries where hatred for women is encouraged. Evolved countries should absolutely refuse to expose their female citizens to that sort of contempt and abuse.

I was going to say this. People refer to such policies being backwards but women could still sing, speak to each other, have jobs outside the home, didn't have to cover their entire bodies (yes they dressed modestly but so did men, as much to keep warm as anything), weren't legally obliged to travel everywhere with a male escort, no restrictions on travelling abroad, could wear bright clothing (if they could afford it), etc.

Other than possibly access to better medical care (although not everywhere and only if your husband allows it) you'd probably have had a better standard of life in medieval europe, on the whole.

Well she was a raging neocon so not surprising

Human rights in Afghanistan? Good luck with that

She was a Democrat.

Men in the west don't care because it's only women affected.

If this regime lasts, you wonder what the next generation of women will be like born into that society. Emotionally, educationally and psychologically stunted. No way of helping themselves and maybe not even having the notion to want to help themselves as it will be the norm to them.

Of course we care. Watch the program on Helmand that was on last night

Often this can be a generational thing. If the older women still support it, then there’s a way to go before the younger women who have had a taste of freedom are likely to protest against it.

Both older women and younger women have
The situation is complicated. It's not like people were living the sweet life when the US forces were on the ground. The US backed government had a lot of corruption. Some people may have seen the Taliban as resistance against an occupation. Many Afghan women starting protesting when their freedom were taken away, and this resistance was utterly crushed - with many being sent to prison. I think it's unfair to say muslim women, generally agree with this.

Yes a raging neocon democrat.

Evolved countries? What the 'civilised west' who fund genocides around the world?

Evolved in terms of women’s rights. I thought, given the thread subject, that was clear?

There is no world movement such as we saw with apartheid to condemn the Afghan regime specifically for it’s treatment- enslavement - of women. The United Nations in particular is an absolute disgrace.

The truth is that apartheid didn’t only become the cause celebre because of the resistance in South Africa and the prominent celebrated leaders ( and even that regime didn’t routinely take, threaten, incarcerate or torture dissidents children) but because it affected men as well as women. If it had just been women, the west would have largely ignored it.

And where is the press reporting on the prominent Muslim scholars condemning this treatment of women as anti Islamic and urging the Afghanistani regime to respect Islamic law?

Its possible that things may change as more and more women and valued (boy) babies die in Afghanistan due to lack of medical care / will to live. There are already murmurings of some women being permitted to train as midwives in a kind of tolerated but hidden way. But it seems the case that a nation whose tribes once branded its women along with the cattle is returning to barbarism.

Well if you recall, S. Africa had to sort itself out. The world mostly did symbolic condemnations like UN reports, suspension, sanctions. No one went in with soldiers to force the end of apartheid.

Sadly, it has to be the same for Afghanistan. The US & coalition tried for twenty years to assist Afghanistan but I think we have learned you cannot impose lasting societal change as a military occupier without having the resources to 100% conquer the country and do it for several centuries (like the Romans had).

The US and coalition didn’t even successfully occupy half of Afghanistan. The Taliban were never fully defeated, they were driven out of only the biggest cities and immediate suburbs.

Bloody hell, you think the US invaded and occupied Afghanistan to help it out? Are you mad? Most people on this thread are completely blind to western imperialism and prefer to feel superior talking about 'feminism '.

Also, Afghanistan is not the only forgotten issue. Sudan does not seem to exist, either. The numbers of displaced people are really shocking, the ethnic cleansing going on, the abuse of women, endless list really.

Ethiopia as well - and again rape being used as a weapon of war by various militias https://news.un.org/en/story/2023/10/1142142

And of course the ongoing situation with Al Shabaab in Somalia who would like to impose a Taliban style restriction on women there too (although they do let women run businesses).

All, but the last one is Error 404. Have they been deleted?

Thanks for bringing them up.
The mistreatment of women is a key part of these conflicts. Treating women like things and helping themselves to their bodies, labour, children and souls, like they are nothing, like we are nothing.
Humankind is capable of horrible things and beautiful ones, which are the ones that betters society and make us prosper. War destroys all of that. But we never ever learn.

@ItTook8WibesToKnow7WasEnough

Seems to work ok at the moment

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/politics/5165063-afghan-women-fear-the-worst

And where is the press reporting on the prominent Muslim scholars condemning this treatment of women as anti Islamic and urging the Afghanistani regime to respect Islamic law?

^

Must be somewhere???

Simple answer : because it's only women

It's beyond abhorrent, but I do think there are more complex issues preventing action on suggestions of rising up or blaming all men for the suppression.
The average non taliban male is also under rules/laws and can be punished, for example not having the proscribed beard, but also can be punished if his female relative is not abiding by her rules. When it is only the male providing opportunities for the next family meal then this helps compliance of all the family - near starvation level living itself keeps populations under control as well.
The geography and population spread of Afghanistan is also a problem - many live in small remote areas and would never be able to link up for any mass action, one area will have no idea how the next is living and many may want to just continue their way of life - this has always been an issue for other countries hoping to conquer Afghanistan.
Re women going to borders - I couldn't personally walk to a border in the small U.K. but also main borders for main cities are Pakistan and Iran so they're not going to be letting them through anyway. Men often leave rather than women as they can travel more easily and probably won't get raped - there is then family reunion options in most western countries at least. The original Afghan asylum seekers after Kabul fell did leave as families. Of course cultural differences can always be an issue when relocating too and there is no easy answer for that - or it would cost money and resources other countries don't have or don't want to provide. Separately to this I actually think migration is a global issue that the world needs to work on together but that will never happen.
Some of the Taliban have expressed their boredom of 'peace' and prefer to be fighting - I think this perhaps drives more and more extreme rules giving further options for violence when they're broken - just a thought.
I do think that in major cities the infrastructure will ultimately be damaged by these laws - different circumstances but China's one child policy has ended up affecting their population adversely and so other areas of their infrastructure and running of the country - in Afghanistan removing half the population from access to facilities, reducing women via no medical help in general, is going to impact on the population balance and so country eventually I think. Also there will be some areas where girls get underground education and families are just complying publicly, so if any change becomes possible then there will be a small number ready for that.
I do absolutely reject what is happening now, it is scary and so sad, but we have tried occupying and it's not worked, and imposing western values as 'better' is dodgy. I do think there ought to be more recorded objections from the world but some countries agree, some need the oil, and most are disinterested as it won't benefit them - same with some other countries less in the news.
Sometimes I don't want to be associated with this world 😔