Sinking of Yacht off Sicilian Coast

[Cesarina]

This is of course an absolutely tragic event.
I'm feeling a bit mean by saying this.........but why is it the headline topic on BBC news?
I genuinely feel sorry for those involved, but don't understand why it's the dominant news story?

Exactly @notimagain

And early reports stick - whether based on fact or not. EG several people in the last few days have said that Princess Diana’s bodyguard survived because he was wearing a seatbelt, when the full
investigation indicated he wasn’t.

Lots of people stating things as fact about the hatches and doors, or how the alarm was or wasn’t raised, which I don’t believe have been confirmed or denied yet officially, because it is too damn soon.

From experience, drowning, or at least going unconscious underwater, isn't particularly painful (bends etc. not included). Oxygen starvation is very surreal and weird.

Although superyachts with billionaire owners and guests do tend to go into marinas or put the guests onshore for storms because they’re not sailors and they don’t want to get seasick/scared on holiday. This was a well predicted storm according to Italians.

Superyachts with or without owners or guests on board are highly restricted in their berthing. The whole point of a superyacht is that they are totally self contained for extended bluewater cruising. It would be highly unusual for a guest to need to be put ashore.

The latest hypothesis is a downburst.

This was a well predicted storm according to Italians.

Problem is there are storms, where Cumulonimbus is in the forecast, and then there are the sorts of cumulonimbus clouds that can generate microbursts…

One of the many issues with downbursts/microburst is they are difficult to forecast and if they are around, hard to detect…in daylight you can sometimes see associated phenomenon (e.g. Virga) but you would be screwed at night without very specialist equipment (some airports have such, a few aircraft have weather radars that have a function that can detect microbursts).

We are a long way from knowing if a microburst/downdraught was involved in this accident but in any event would be interested to know if microbursts/downdraughts are already a concern in the sailing world.

Nevertheless there are superyacht guests who do not want to weather storms at sea, thus the captain will find a marina or put them ashore if necessary. There are plenty round the med that take 50m+.

Which is the point of anchor watch. Weather can change in an instant.

Superyacht weather detection systems are quite sophisticated,

There are also circumstances where a yacht is actually safer at sea, at anchor, than in marina or what have you.

@notimagain We are a long way from knowing if a microburst/downdraught was involved in this accident but in any event would be interested to know if microbursts/downdraughts are already a concern in the sailing world.

In short, yes. Sailors are very aware of the vagaries of the wind and how complex it can be. The classification bodies are also intimately aware of extreme weather and sea states. Most professionals will have FNMOC, NOAA and ECMWF high on their list of bookmarks and will have read up on Adlard Coles and Marchaj.

Downbursts that can sink a large be vessel have a kind of mythical status, in no small part because very few witnesses and reliable and verified accounts survive. But like rogue waves they have become better documented in the last ten or twenty years.

Most vessels, Titanic included, have a number of bulkheads that separate sections such that more than one would need to be compromised for the vessel to sink at all.

Time will out.

@Daftasabroom

Thanks for that, much appreciated.

This is a good point, and I think what the spokesperson was referring to when he said he didn't want to say anything that he may need to retract at a later date.

I found this article interesting WRT how potential negligence or manslaughter in a maritime context is defined in various jurisdictions.

www.dockwalk.com/jobs/career-advice/who-is-liable-in-maritime-accidents

I'm not suggesting that any kind of negligence occurred in this case.

The master or captain carries a great deal of accountability.

@Daftasabroom I have no experience of sailing and didn't appreciate the extent of that accountability until I read the article and also thought more about the incident.

IMO people like me interpret the way that this is being reported ("saying it is probable that a criminal act") implies a potential deliberate act, or wilful negligence on the part of one or more of the crew.

Whereas after reading more about it I think that the investigators would include an error of judgement type act, or a fault with the boat design in the description of a criminal act.

Well, I had no idea “culpable shipwreck” was a crime until today @Wishitwasstraightforward

They don't go into marinas to put guests ashore, that's what tenders are for.

Me neither @SheilaFentiman.

It brings thoughts to my mind such as had the dynamics not involved "customers" and "staff", (so maybe a sailing expedition or race), would the captain have made different decisions e.g. asking everyone onboard to gather in a relatively safe place above deck, don life jackets etc.?

I can imagine that demanding that of your billionaire customers at 5am as a precaution would require careful consideration. If it turned out to be unnecessary the Captain's job would be on the line for being over cautious and frightening his customer.

In terms of design it sounds as though the interior rooms were large and luxurious and that the presence of grab rails, and escape hatches may not have been as high a priority as it could have been. I'd imagine that evacuating a large room which had been turned 90 degrees on its side would be very challenging especially if the room is large, and not designed to facilitate exit under unexpected circumstances.

Should have refused to extradite them. Bet the US would fight an extradition of their billionaires.

That’s not how extradition treaties work.

This thread has been well focused on the technicalities of the wreck; hopefully it can stay that way.

That was never suggested.

To be fair @Mirabai you did post superyachts with billionaire owners and guests do tend to go into marinas or put the guests onshore for storms when actually this would be incredibly rare.

That's exactly what you suggested @Mirabai in your comment yesterday.

No you didn’t understand my comment. For a severe storm they might either go into a marina or put the guests onshore if they are apprehensive.

Never suggested they’d go to a marina to put the guests onshore.

That’s not what the poster is saying she was telling me boats don’t go to a marina to take the guests ashore - no shit!

I can’t say how representative it is, but I can assure you when I worked as a deckie for a while 30 years ago it wasn’t uncommon.

The industry has totally transformed, these boats were only in planning 25 years ago. Mirabella V broke virtually every record going in terms of scale but now looks pretty average.

I don't know which size of stink v sail boats you worked on but they really are pretty obscene these days. Bayesian wouldn't even make the top ten.