Sunderland police station set on fire

[PrettyFlyforaMaiTai]

It appears that the rioters have set Sunderland police station on fire

news.sky.com/story/southport-violence-stabbings-attack-riot-london-hartlepool-misinformation-sky-news-blogs-13186819

It's a lot easier to get people on board with a lie that contains a bit of truth in it. So it is with the far right, taking genuine grievances and twisting them into a race war.

People talk about people not taking opportunities to better themselves. Have you seen how the apprenticeships have been decimated in the last two decades? Have you tried looking for evening classes? Not everyone has the ability or desire to go to uni, but you used to be able to join decent training routes either from school or around a job but there's hardly any left thanks to years of government dicking around.

So instead of a path out, you get people stuck in dead end jobs feeling miserable, seeing cost of living increasing and told on all sides that there isn't money to support them. It is very, very easy for someone to tap into that, point at a group supposedly getting handouts, and make people resentful.

If the government want to tackle this, they need to use a two pronged approach. Yes, clamp down hard on riots (it would be nice if they actually fund the police properly to enable this) but they also need to look at reinstating opportunities for the non-academic to upskill themselves, otherwise there will constantly be a group of disenfranchised waiting to kick off.

I thought this would happen a while back, but with the GE results I expected the likelihood to increase

Starmer’s policy switch is going to be highly problematic for him

Thatcher caused the issue, New Labour failed to act on it. Parties of both colours have caused this situation, you can't just blame it on the Tories. Labour no longer represents many WC (definitely not the under class). Starmer needs to sort immigration ASAP otherwise this will keep escalating and so far the only thing he has done is to scrap the measures that were appeasing the right ie deportations and the barge.

Yes!

This is comparable to some other EU countries

I really do think head in the sand has dominated for a while now. This will increase

I guess this is exactly why Trump won, and will win again. I understand your points, and even as a brown person, I don't want to shut all discussion down, otherwise Reform may do very well in the next election.

@twistyizzy the issue isn't immigration though, is it?

It's the racist yobs who want any excuse to go out and smash places up.

I saw a fantastic thread on X about the Hartlepool mosque. During the lockdowns it fed the local community. It still does. Shop owners who are Muslim donate food that's going out of date to people in need, so that it doesn't get wasted. They contribute to the community and make it a better place, meanwhile the smackheads will come out and do this at any opportunity.

Starmer needs to sort out the yobs doing this.

It is so important that we discuss these things even if they are uncomfortable. Shutting these people down just exacerbates the issue and so many posters don't understand that.
I've worked with the kids of these people and they have no hope, nothing to aim for and no aspiration. That's what needs sorting otherwise we will just see a continuation of violence and a rise of Reform.
Starmer is just stoking the fire every time he opens his mouth because he doesn't understand the core issue.

the issue isn't immigration though, is it?

It is yes

Of course it isn't fundamentally about immigration but that's what Reform and the right have been able to turn it into because they turn the anger against the establishment into anger towards anyone who is "other". It is about generations of disenfranchised people with no hope/prospects of a future being used by Reform etc.
So now it becomes about immigration but the roots are in areas of the country ignored and forgotten about by politicians of all colours.

I've looked at the photos and footage of the idiots on the streets in Sunderland last night. As with everywhere else they are mainly male, dress like street thugs- whatever their age, aggressive in stance, gesture, actions, language. They are aged from about early teenage to 60s/70s with majority in 20s-30s. They look poorly educated, ignorant and lacking in sophistication in any way. Remind me of football-hooligans in many ways. The women look like oddities and hangers-on.
They all make me sick.
Amongst them will be local and national organisers of this kind of action- the ones who set it up, the ones who whip it up. It doesn't happen by chance- they have people in the midst of it directing it, people planning the whole thing, people who whip it up on social media. They target and manipulate, poor, working-class areas where the poor and poorly educated live and where people feel aggrieved about their lot in life, look for people different from them to blame and resent any authority- areas where people (pathetic men in particular) take little to get mouthy and show off and then it all kicks off and for a night they think they are achieving something big being part of thuggery.
They think society has failed them but the truth is they fail themselves every day if their lives. Society could do more but so could they and they don't. They are weak, pathetic, spineless characters, never taking responsibility for who they are or what they have become.

the issue isn't immigration though, is it?

It is yes

No, it’s inequality. Very, very few people feel immigration is a problem unless their areas have been systematically ignored and underfunded for decades and people like Farage and Tommy Ten Names come along and tell them it’s all the fault of “immigrants”

If you can’t understand what’s going on you have little chance of dealing with it

@EasternStandard @twistyizzy

No. The issue is racism, and male violence.

Well summed up. I agree.

Inequality is what’s going on. This needs addressing. Urgently, but it won’t be a quick fix. People need space to express their concerns, certainly. But then they need to stop listening to the likes of Farage, Fox and Robinson as well, because they’re being played for fools.

And how do you take responsibility for your life when you are 3rd or 4th generation to leave school at 14-16 with no qualifications, no job prospects and a life on benefits? When there are no night classes to help you get qualifications, when there are no Apprenticeships because there are no employers? When there is no careers guidance facility? When no politician or political party does anything to improve your area?
These people have been ignored for generations and it creates a simmering pot of resentment, anger and violence.

I think this is what people forget. In certain areas of London, integration has worked, and the middle classes come from all backgrounds and ethnicities, because there is a lot of wealth in those areas and therefore aspirational families from all backgrounds.

However in some areas this hasn’t worked - there was a lack of wealth to start with, so both ‘sides’ have become embedded in their cultures and roots, because there’s little to unite them in the way of work and aspiration. The white working classes blame the immigrant communities, and in return the immigrant communities think fuck this and double down on whatever their cultural roots are, both in competition with the other.

People in scenario 1 think ‘well we’ve managed to blend in seamlessly, so the fact they haven’t in scenario 2 means they’re just not as great/moral/clever as we are, and just inherently thick and racist’. It’s a badge of moral superiority to think they’re obviously just a better type of person rather than wonder, ‘if I was in scenario 2, and grew up on a council estate, would I think differently?’. It’s more about them patting themselves on the back than concern.

The answer, rather than simply trying to extinguish dissent when it happens and then forget about it only for it to come back stronger, is to address the problem. Could they get ‘representatives’ from both sides together who are willing to discuss? Is there any common ground to be had? Why do each side feel the way they do? We should loosely follow the peace process in Northern Ireland.

They are symptoms, not the cause. You, like Labour, just don't want to try and understand the fundamental issues and that's why Starmer is just stoking the fire. I am not excusing the behaviour at all and I certainly don't agree with them but I do understand what causes it.

People are head in the sand over this. If politicians don’t get it they’ll face growing tensions each summer.

If trafficking policies fail we’ll likely see increasing volatility over the next five years

People certainly are being played for fools, by people who don't give a shit about inequality.

One of the sources of the vile disinformation which was used as an excuse for the rioting is an affluent 'lockdown skeptic'

https://www.thetimes.com/article/e87b09fb-b8fe-408d-a961-c89e6ae0f098?shareToken=0e6a2230146c07273344af404428423c

The woman accused of being first to post a false Muslim name for the suspect is the managing director of a clothing company. The mother of three in her mid-fifties enjoys walking, is married to an artist and counts an actor among her children. The family live in a £1.5 million farmhouse in the rural north.

Immigration equals not enough jobs to go round no matter how educated you are.

AI also reducing jobs. The situation is going to get a lot worse for the whole of the UK. No one will be exempt.

That is a fascinating read. Thank you for sharing.

Erm the NHS is carrying around 100 000 vacancies at the moment. Hospitality is crying out for staff. We cant get enough people to do jobs needed

As for AI, well the general public seem to be loving and lapping up automated this and that, so we get what we deserve. If you dont want jobs to go down the pan, refuse to use the automated ills in supermarkes, demand proper staffed train stations etc etc

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1819615713687949719.html

The political dynamics of this week’s far-right riots are unique on many levels.

thread 1/ First: it’s organised/incited. Tommy Robinson’s lieutenant “Danny Tommo” issued a call: