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Duncan Fisher: Stop ignoring fathers when babies are born

271 replies

Tom · 14/04/2008 09:53

The Independent. Monday, 14 April 2008

The only time that attention to fathers is really exercised is when a father is violent.

Consider the new mother who has just had a Caesarean. She needs help to pick up and settle the baby, on a ward where the midwives are overstretched. Or consider the new mother who cannot walk and whose baby is on the special care baby unit, two wards away. She needs the baby's father to help her speedily transfer expressed milk to the newborn ? but he has access only during "visiting hours".

In the NHS you are either a "patient" or a "visitor". And 30 years after it became normal for a father to attend baby's birth, there are still no formal NHS-wide standards for what he needs to know. Nor is there any formal guidance on how he can provide extra support to a mother who is sick or incapacitated after the birth.

Perhaps the ultimate expression of the "nanny state" is when a couple have just had a baby and ? at this heightened family experience ? the hospital says "now you have to part company ? dad, go home". Setting aside any opinions about the father's right to stay with his family, regularly excluding fathers from maternity services in this, and many other ways, has a detrimental effect on mothers and babies.

The NHS does not even have a system of formally registering who the father is, let alone formally assessing his own needs ? does he smoke? Does he know how to support breastfeeding? When my two children were born, my partner was asked only one question about me ? does he have any genetic abnormalities in his family? I was not even asked my name. And yet research shows that, when it comes to the health of mother and baby ? smoking, breastfeeding, depression ? I am the biggest influence. I am uniquely able to support her and my baby and I am uniquely able to screw them both up. Despite the enlightened work of countless midwives and birthing units who genuinely see that a birth is a family event that needs as light a touch as possible from professionals, the NHS continues to commission a system designed for the 1950s. Every maternity unit is filled with fathers ? well over 90 per cent are involved at some point before, during or after the birth. And yet, high-level policy debates in the NHS can continue for hours as if men simply did not exist.

The only time that attention to fathers is really exercised is when a father is violent. A focus on violence is absolutely right, but what if as much energy was expended on mobilising the positive support that the vast majority of fathers provide, or could provide, to mother and baby?

Firstly, fathers would be registered into maternity services and formally engaged with. The failure of a father to show up would result in an enquiry ? no compulsion, just an informed conversation with the mother about what she wants and what is best for baby when it comes to making sure the father is informed and positively engaged.

All health information would be routinely communicated to both parents ? breastfeeding, smoking, mental health, vaccinations. Mother-only provision should always be available but as special provision for special needs, not the default. And if the father is a source of problems, it is no good the NHS just walking away from it ? that won't stop him causing problems the moment the baby is back at home. Fathers in this situation should be treated exactly as mothers in the same situation: extra engagement, not less.

At the heart of the problem is still the cultural expectation that babies are mum's business only. As one young black father said to a government group on children's services recently: "It is too easy for young dads to walk away from their responsibilities."

What happens when a father does not engage? Absolutely nothing. The moral panic only sets in later when the same father fails to pay child support ? then suddenly he is reclassified from a "nobody" to a "feckless father". In the US, where they trialled a simple process of midwives talking to young fathers when they visited their partners, child support payments went up.

Things have to change. When a baby is born, fathers are as responsible for the little one as mothers are. At every point in the process, an expectation of his full involvement should be communicated to both parents.

And this new vision needs to extend far beyond maternity services. Employers still expect that only women, and not men, will compromise work for caring responsibilities. The Government has just introduced a system where fathers get two weeks and mothers get 52 weeks ? the biggest difference in leave entitlement of any country in the world. If we keep going backwards: fathers will be excluded more and mothers will pay a heavier price for being left alone on the high throne of motherhood.

The writer is the chief executive of the Fatherhood Institute.

OP posts:
lulumama · 14/04/2008 19:35

tom, i could not email you ! i have lots to say !

oiFoiF · 14/04/2008 19:35

tom has been here forever but he left when dadslib wouldnt give him a blowjob
iirc

lulumama · 14/04/2008 19:38

before my time, fio

Monkeytrousers · 14/04/2008 19:38

Tom, I?m sorry if some of us are coming over a but sceptical about this, but as I said before, the misogynous shenanigans of Fathers for Justice have put a lot of us on guard about father?s groups in general, and that may not be fair, but it is understandable. If your group really is pro-family and not primarily pro-male, then you have nothing to fear.

And I?m afraid your claim that mums have no ?secret? abilities that men don?t have might not be strictly true ? they aren?t secret for example, but evolution has certainly equipped women for calming babies more that men if even just on a physical level ? just by those two calming milk bazookas for a start! She has bee, ?practising for millennia and though some women won?t have as good ?maternal? skills as some men have, on an average scale they do.

The old-school feminist notion of the blank-slate is well on the way out so please don?t adopt it thinking it is progressive, it is the opposite of what science tells us today.

I am all for choice ? between couples about how they wish to have kids. If the man wants to be in the hospital, they should know this is a privilege and that they will have to pay for it with a private room.

It?s a shocking fact that many women don?t always end up on labour wards to have live children. In labour wards you find women at their most vulnerable and it really is no place to have anyone but the most trained and dedicated carers around them.

Admirable as your campaign might be - and I thin it?s probably a genuine a case of the road to hell being paved with good intentions ? I just don?t think it has been thought through enough. It seems to be led by ideology and politics not science and that makes me doubt its usefulness. Sorry.

Monkeytrousers · 14/04/2008 19:42

"I rather think that there would be less evolutionary need to recognise paternal odor, since he cannot breast feed."

Yes, I think you are correct MB.

Monkeytrousers · 14/04/2008 19:44

echo Spankydad's comments too

edam · 14/04/2008 19:47

practising is the verb, btw, Tom. (Not having a go, just can't stand it!)

Beetroot · 14/04/2008 19:49

'You love your partner and you love your kids, of course you do. But once upon a time you loved your car. Remember that? When it was just you and her and the open road? Or, at least, the A57 in a bit of a traffic jam. But now you're a family man you have to forget about sleek lines and a racing profile and opt for the practical, the useful the dull. Or do you?'

pmsl

Tom · 14/04/2008 19:53

Lulumama - the contact form's working fine - not sure what your problem is. Can you contact me via mumsnet?

Monkeytrousers

I've spoken publically on the issues a lot - to midwives, health visitors and children's workers - even at the World Health Organisation in Geneva, to Health ministers. The first thing I've had to do every time is make it clear that we're nothing like Fathers4Justice.

By associating fathrhood in everybody's mind with the politics of a small number of (usually very angry) men, any attempt to deal constructively with fatherhood issues is initially seen as more of the same. It's been very frustrating.

Of course men don't get pregnant, give birth or breastfeed... only a pillock would imply such a thing (or Oprah!) and there may well be an odour effect... who knows (I don't think that the research has actually dealt with this issue though). No one is denying this.

Lactating breasts are a bit of a double edged sword when it comes to calming a distressed baby though wouldn't you say? Brilliant sometimes, and at other times a huge distraction for the baby... at least that's what some couples tell us.

By the way - the campaign was for the dad to be with the mother IF SHE WANTS HIM TO BE THERE, not if he wants to be there. It was a campaign for a maternal right within maternity services apparently.

OP posts:
lulumama · 14/04/2008 19:54

will do

lulumama · 14/04/2008 19:56

you are not signed up for CAT, so i cannot email you, tells me i need to reenter the capthca???? on the website

Tom · 14/04/2008 19:58

It's a security measure to stop spambots emailing us. You just have to enter the two distorted words in the red box at the bottom.

OP posts:
lulumama · 14/04/2008 20:02

now i have done it correctly, it seems to be workign fine.

Tom · 14/04/2008 20:03

Yep thanks - just got it. Will reply in due course.

OP posts:
AitchTwoOh · 14/04/2008 20:43

Tom, re: "By the way - the campaign was for the dad to be with the mother IF SHE WANTS HIM TO BE THERE, not if he wants to be there. It was a campaign for a maternal right within maternity services apparently."

BUT THE OTHER WOMEN ON THE WARD DON'T WANT THE DADS THERE. do you understand that? it's been said about ten times on this thread and endlessly on the thread that lulu linked to (which you surely can't have read).

we'd all have our own partners there, they're lovely guys to a man.

but to a woman, a woman who has just given birth, is bleeding and stitched and is very very vulnerable, she doesn't care if the guy snoring in the armchair in the bed next door is the loveliest guy in the world, she just wishes he wasn't there. why is that so difficult to grasp?

if you want a campaign, shout for more midwives. campaign for a ward to be made available for fathers elsewhere in the hospital. stamp your big boots for more bfing support for your female partners so that your children will be healthier, but really, focusing on your (and your partner's) wants and desires at the expense of everyone else on a ward... it's just outrageously selfish.

Blandmum · 14/04/2008 20:46

an issue that Tom has not answered, Aitch

misdee · 14/04/2008 20:50

i dont want anyone elses dh or dp there. all i want to do is sleep after pushing out a baby through a surprsingly small hole, breastfeed and get to know my little one.

i dont want to hear 'hi love, my mum just called, she will be in later on to see you both' at all hours. i dont want to hear mobiles going off and the 'click click' as they tap out text messages on silent mode.

in fact, i want a home birth this time.

luminarphrases · 14/04/2008 20:56

nothing i can add aitch, but i entirely agree.

next time (i hope ) i will have a homebirth, precisely so i can have dh around, but without having everyone else's dh's around

Countingthegreyhairs · 14/04/2008 21:01

campaign for newly built maternity hospitals to be built with private rooms with ensuite facilities where dps & dhs can stay without intruding on others ...which is the norm over here in many countries in mainland Europe ...

AitchTwoOh · 14/04/2008 21:02

i hope you get it, misdee. tbh i'd also ban those bloody televisions they have in some hospitals. i had dd the day before the big finals of X Factor and Strictly COme Dancing, every tv was tuned to something different and i had my head under a pillow with radio four.

those tvs also brought out some interesting behaviour in some of the dads, by the way... more than a couple of them switched them on the minute they arrived in hospital and then sat with their feet up largely ignoring their partners and occasionally picking up the baby. they really weren't fussing over the mums, trying to help them.

nor was dh, mind you, but then he was knackered from moving into our flat after i'd gone into labour rather earlier than anticipated. that's a real act of love, imo, a man turning up at the hospital with sushi, fruit salad, a teddy for his child and covered in plaster dust from having been up half the night trying to create somewhere for us all to sleep. no 'issues' here... lol.

AitchTwoOh · 14/04/2008 21:03

hope you get yours too, luminar.

exactly, counting, that's a worthwhile campaign.

SueW · 14/04/2008 21:22

How about campaigning that if women have to give birth in hospital, it's somewhere close to home with great parking where dad/partner can come and go more easily.

Rather than a massive maternity/baby factory where you spend an hour looking for parking, 20 mins getting from the car park (if you can find a space, otherwise you drive down the road to the park and ride facility, find a space and wait for the link bus) to the right ward in the hospital.

Only one issue has been really picked out of this. Here are all the things mentioned in the email I got:

  • All mums and dads to be allowed to stay together overnight on postnatal wards
  • A new system for birth registration practice to help get more dads to sign the birth certificate
  • More training for midwives on engaging with fathers, including free study days on this subject
  • Fathers to be encouraged to be present for doctors' ward rounds and for baby care lessons
  • A Government programme of targeted antenatal support for young mothers and vulnerable fathers.
Tom · 14/04/2008 21:39

Aitch - as I've said, its not my campaign - it's FI's - I just run Dad Info. Its a good point you make and I'll feed back to those who are doing the campaign that the issue of privacy is a key one for mothers. The interesting paradox is that a lot of you seem to want your partner there but no one elses.

Within new hospital builds, I think the FI do back the LDRP model which is similar to what people on here suggest - the maternity unit has an on suite room for every mother, and a bank of these replace all of the pre, post and delivery suites, so there's just one room for each mother and it's private, and has a reclining chair for the partner to sleep in.

I think there's a hosptial in Hull that built it like that and they had the explicit aim of reducing midwifery workloads through getting partner's to do practical stuff like getting drinks, helping her move around, running baths etc. The plan was to free midwives time to focus on the more important stuff.

OP posts:
expatinscotland · 14/04/2008 21:46

'i hope you get it, misdee. tbh i'd also ban those bloody televisions they have in some hospitals. i had dd the day before the big finals of X Factor and Strictly COme Dancing, every tv was tuned to something different and i had my head under a pillow with radio four. '

I'd have a visiting hours for TVs, yes!

NO TVs on after 10PM.

Better yet, in addition to more trained medical staff available to help us women, the patients, and our babies, also the patients, BRING BACK THE MATRON!

Hospitals are not hotels.

amicissima · 14/04/2008 21:46

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