OK, how does God fit into this?

[KateandtheElves]

Personally I am agnostic (I think that's the right word. I don't believe in God but I can't say for sure that He doesn't exist.). But I have the utmost respect for people who do believe in God and use that belief to help them be better people (as my late husband did).

For those of you who do believe in God, and I know this a question that has been asked many times before, why would God let so many people (children even) be killed last week? I just can't understand how you could reconcile this enormous tragedy with a loving God.

I don't want to start an argument, but I'm genuinely interested in a believer's point of view.

the popes a nutbucket anyway

No darling, he's infallible, even when he's lost most of his marbles.

I come slightly reluctantly, tbh, because this is one of those ago-old unanswerables. I am a Christian - an evangelical one at that - so some of you may want to gloss this post now!

I believe that God wants good things for us, but we live in a world at war - where God is for good, Satan is for evil. Very convenient, you may think, but it's a worldview presented by the Bible.

If you ask 'Where is God?', then I think a different answer would come from each person involved. There was a church in Sri Lanka (I think) where the service overran due to the priest's long sermon. 1500 Christians were not at home to be swept away by the tsunami because they were in the church on top of a hill. On the other hand, 80 worshippers in another church in the same town were swept away. Those two congregations would doubtless give you very different answers to your question, but I think most of them would agree that God was with them where they were.

I believe that God was with each person, whether in their survival or their death - and that as others have said already, the fact that Jesus came and died means that he can understand and identify with the experiences of each one.

waswondering - no, it doesn't. not one bit.

ks, as I understand it the Pope isn't as conservative as some would like. The hard line stuff that has been coming out recently coincides with his failing health i.e. it is debateable how much of it really comes from him. As for the CofE following where he leads, we have women priests (but not yet bishops ) and the Pope will not even allow the subject to be officially discussed. (Lavinia Byrne's autobiography is very good on this subject).

Aloha - somehow I suspect any Christian here has about as much chance of changing your mind as you have Billy Graham's!

custardo - thanks!

campari - oh - oh!

er, yes!

I think purgatory has been done away with officially, have you seen that great bit on Father Ted with Dougal talking to the bishop about it!

hi, ks, yes I have been away although pop by every now and then... I have a dd2 now and don't get a lot of time!

Pretty sure I have nothing substantial to add, and I'm no good at all in a theological argument, but as a Christian I love reading these posts and I wanted to ask you a question, Ionesmum, re. your post of Sat 1 Jan @ 10:39:36 PM. I would agree with you that 'God loves everyone', but how do you come to believe that 'we will all have a place with God in heaven, whether we have believed in him in this life or not' ?

Back to the original question, there are no cut and dry answers, only more questions it would seem. Others have covered this, but would we want a God (if we believed in one) that controlled everything, even down to the laws of physics? Where would science be then?

Hi, jinglebelljodie. My belief is what is called universalism i.e. everyone will be saved, even Satan. This is because I believe that God's love is so all-powerful that no evil will be able to resist it once it comes face to face with God in whatever happens after death. The more common CofE point of view is that everyone can be saved regardless of faith, but truly evil people can choose not to be. If I'd been open about my belief a few hundred years ago I'd have been burned as a heretic!

Hi Ionesmum, interesting viewpoint (and I'm sure we all would have been burned at the stake just for having this discussion!). For me, it would then seem pointless having any faith at all - how does Jesus' death and resurrection come into your beliefs?

Good article in The Guardian today with quotes from different religious leaders in UK. Couldn't find it online but it was excellent. Archbishop of canterbury and others - very good insight into it all.

"Where is god in all this?"

Think that's it.

Jodee, I believe that it is through the death of Jesus and his resurrection that we are saved, so our own actions cannot save us. I do believe that we will have to be judged for what we have done ( I think this will be that we a terrible understanding of all the harm that we have done) but that ultimately we will have a place in heaven with God. Because of the enormity of what God has done for us I believe it is my duty to live my life in accordance with his ways, not to save my own soul but out of gratitude for what I have and what God gives to us all.

Message withdrawn

well said Bloss!

If we are all going to heaven regardless, and we have total free will and the world is as it is and God is powerless to intervene/uninterested in intervening, then what is the point of religion, worship, prayer etc etc etc?
Personally, I think the endless agonies of suffering of children at the hands of the likes of Dr Mengele in the Nazi concentration camps are an even stronger argument against the existence of any kind of God.
It also seems very odd to me that God can (could?) alter the physical nature of the universe at will in the Bible (parting of seas, water into wine, loaves and fishes etc) but is quite unable (apparently) to stop mass suffering from volcanic eruptions. Why? Has he lost his touch?

And how (and why) did Adam and Eve's exercise of free will create 'defective' tectonic plates? I'm afraid (sorry) that that makes no sense to me at all. Esp as to believe in the literal existence of Adam and Eve seems fairly extreme to me, even for a Christian.