WTAF? Asylum seekers to be detained across the UK in shock Rwanda operation

[Tenmus]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/apr/28/home-office-to-detain-asylum-seekers-across-uk-in-shock-rwanda-operation

"The Home Office will launch a surprise operation to detain asylum seekers across the UK on Monday in preparation for deportation to Rwanda, weeks earlier than expected, the Guardian understands.
Officials plan to hold refugees who turn up for routine meetings at immigration service offices and will also pick people up nationwide in a two-week exercise.

They will be immediately transferred to detention centres, which have already been prepared for the operation, and held to be put on later flights to Rwanda. Others identified for these flights are already being held."

I am actually shocked by this. A cruel, inhumane action with terrible optics and a colossal waste of money.

But the majority of those claiming state pension have paid into the system for years to get it. It’s not ‘free’ money.

This is not how the state pension works. It is the people currently in work whose tax pays for the people currently in receipt of state pensions.

The thread is full of perfectly sensible viable alternatives. Try reading it.

The tiny possibility of being one of 300 deportees isn't showing any sign of deterring anyone currently.

Even if we were taking on a 1.1 basis this is more about stopping the boats than reducing numbers.
The boats are a tiny percentage of our overall migration, the issue with them is the exploitation, lack of records, trafficking and deaths.

There's nothing to stop you emigrating now, if you fancy it so much.

But it’s all reciprocal - we’re all paying into the system, so the pensioners have also had their turn at paying out. It’s all going in the same pot.

I don’t think hubs or processing abroad will work as people expect as they’ll attract incredibly high numbers

Why assume everyone who disagrees with this wants open migration? Most people simply want asylum seekers to be treated humanely, and they have no problem with those with no genuine claim to asylum being sent back.

This is fucking hilarious.
Yeah, all those students propping up our Universities, and those people with work visas, Grrrr fuck'em.

This simply isn't true. They're in the system for years because the initial decisions are taking years. Once a decision is made, if negative, the appeal system is comparatively quick.

There is no provision within the system for "appeal after appeal." There is an initial right of appeal to the First Tier Tribunal. Whichever party is unsuccessful at the FTT is entitled to apply for permission to appeal to the Upper Tribunal and an application can only be made if the First Tier judge has made an identifiable error of law.

That is then sifted by a single judge on the papers who either grants permission to appeal, or more commonly refuses permission. It takes a few weeks.

An application can then be made again on the papers directly to the Upper Tribunal to try to persuade an Upper Tribunal judge to grant permission. If that too is refused then that's it, end of story. (For the immigration law pedants, there then used to be what we called a Cart JR available but this has recently been restricted to the point of near impossibility.)

If permission is granted then you get an "error of law hearing" at the Upper Tribunal where the oral argument is made that the FTT made an error of law. If the appeal is still dismissed the only avenue is to the Court of Appeal, again with a permission stage on the papers to filter out those who shouldn't be granted permission. A fraction of a minority get to the CoA.

There are two major faults in the system, both of which would be easy to fix. The first is that the Home Office don't make quick decisions and don't make good decisions. They churn out template decisions which commonly run to twenty or thirty pages of pro-forma bullshit that doesn't engage with the issues, often four years or so after a claim was made. The second is that once someone has been refused and appeal rights exhausted they are sent a letter telling them they need to leave the country but there isn't often much in the way of follow-up from that. This leaves the individual vulnerable to traffickers and other ne'er do wells, and makes a mockery of the state's claimed interest in effective immigration control.

Does anyone get sent away though

I work in a court day in and day out
What as? The jester?

No, we don't have millions on benefits that could easily work in care homes or anywhere else. We have around 6 million people on universal credit, of whom around 40% are already working, Around 50% of those claiming benefits are people on old aged pension, and there is a further very hefty proportion who are on disability benefits.

Of the approximately 3.5 million on UC who are not working, many are carers already in respect of their own relatives. If it is so easy to get the rest working in care homes, how do you explain the fact that it isn't happening?

Around 70% of asylum claims are found on examination to be valid. So they're not lying, yet we don't give safe routes to any asylum seekers other than the current very limited exceptions.

Yes, some do. People who commit crimes - often incidentally those who do have leave to remain, so who are here legally, but are not British - and get a sentence of over 12 months are liable to automatic deportation and the prison-to-deportation route is fairly effective, particularly where the deportee does not challenge deportation or where their challenge is hopeless.

There have also been recent charter flights to Albania which have been moderately effective. If the Home Office would write coherent and legally compliant decisions they would be more effective still, but I suppose you can't have everything.

It's fair to say enforcement remains a huge issue though.

Even that quote doesn't say that. It says that we will make arrangements “to resettle a portion of Rwanda’s most vulnerable refugees in the United Kingdom”. Sure, government spokeswoman claims that it will only be a small number, but this is a government with a history of lying. The truth is that Rwanda has more than 300 vulnerable refugees because of the way it deals with the Congolese, so if anything we may well end up with taking more than we ever manage to send.

I can't honestly believe some of these posts. It's depressingly awful.

Posters who think Asylum seekers should be put on planes because our country 'can't cope' as they can't get a GP appointment need to go and Google the dead cat strategy.

The NHS is broken because it has been deliberately dismantled by the Tory Government for years. This, and not asylum seekers is why you can't get an appointment when you need one.

Education is broken because of chronic and deliberate underfunding. If you're not wealthy enough to go private the Tories loathe you.

The social care system is broken because Tories loathe the most vulnerable in society and have no interest in looking after people. If you're disabled, elderly, ill then fuck you. You're on your own.

The economy is broken because the Tories deliberately crashed it, but they got richer (of course).

Our taxes are paying for Tories and their rich pals to use every underhand method to make themselves even wealthier. See the VIP lanes used by them during Covid as a prime example, Michelle Mone and her type. These snakes are everywhere, they've got your hard earned money and they loathe you.

Get angry about that!

Asylum seekers aren't the problem. Wake the fuck up. Divide and conquer is the oldest trick in the book, it's how they govern and this is precisely what the 'small boats' policy is all about.

Rishi and co loathe the vast majority of you and rely on stupid people who continously fall for their shit. And amazingly people still do.

And? That doesn't change the fact that "all" asylum seekers are not coming to the UK, as claimed in the post being responded to here.

I don't see how we could. What are we going to do, ask Kurdish freedom fighters to present themselves at an Iranian-staffed embassy in Tehran and declare themselves dissidents? Suggest gay Ugandans queue up and apply in Kampala, perhaps with a testimony from their partner? Safe routes only work for countries where the individual fears a generalised risk from conflict rather than persecution by the state.

Off the back of this thread I've just made a donation to a refugee charity.

The Tories sicken me. Making political capital out of vulnerable refugees who have desperately risked their lives to get to this country revolts me.

Illegal arrivals are not asylum seekers and are therefore irrelevant to this discussion.

Sure, but it sounded like we were committed to a 1:1 ratio which is not the agreement. It could be fewer, could be more, of course. It would be nice if the govt could tell us exactly what their view of the numbers is to avoid speculation, but I imagine they don't really know themselves.

But we aren't at fucking capacity. We desperately need more people to work in the NHS, care, agriculture, hospitality and a number of other industries.

Was waiting for this to come up again I have had to post this so many times now that im thinking of getting a template made.

a. Fruit picking veg picking etc a lot of which is LIVE IN work. If you rent social housing you have to actually fucking well live there. You are not allowed to live away from home for the length of time these employers want you to. If you want that you will need to give SH tenants more rights! But that would also mean giving them more rights to leave their home for other reasons Up for that are we social housing haters???!!!

b. Gas safety checks fire door checks electric checks Surveys My tenancy agreement says i have to be home for these and no i cant get a friend or neighbour to do it for me.

c. the hatred there is for SH tenants ensures that some busybody would probably report the flat as abandoned if a tenant were to risk their tenancy by taking this job. See recently deleted thread, https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/thirty_days_only/5042443-aibu-to-consider-reporting-a-council-flat-not-used?page=3

d. i have mentioned SH tenants because they will be the most likely group expected to take these jobs yet their hands are tied and they cant And even if they wont perhaps they want a life after the working day (just like home owners have. You know the ones who arent expected to do these jobs, instead of sharing a berth with a stranger

I'd like to offer a trade:

We will take all the asylum seekers who want to come to the UK and swap them for all of the UK's Tory voters.

Detention means locked up, they will not be free to come and go. It’s Disgusting treatment of already vulnerable people.