Spoilt children disrupt schools

[PABLOP]

here

Margaret Morrissey thinks we cannot instill values unless we are sahm

The thing is though, Flack, it really wasn't like it in my day.

I went to a rough school but no child ever told a teacher to 'fuck off'. Because if they did, the school would punish them, and then their parents would punish them a second time.

Now I've had kids do it, we try to punish the kid, but the parents don't let us, and the parent then excuses the poor behaviour. So the child doesn't learn not to do it again.

And yes, there always were over indulged children, but the numbers are rising and the level of poor behaviour is getting worse.

We have had parents objecting to a temporary suspension because their child brought a knife into school. We were supposed to understand that the child' Didn't mean to use it'

I guess people can only talk to their own experiences, and I realise you (Mbp) are more experienced than me with teens today. Do you think it's more than 3-4 kids in a school? -- the stat cited by the detailed summary of this latest study.

Teens at school 'in my day' were often dreadful, chronically disruptive and I always knew I would never want to be a teacher because of it. Though we didn't have knife carriers, admittedly. I was in the high academic stream, though,I think it was a lot rougher in the classes for the less able kids.

How do the parents prevent the school punishing the kids nowadays?

Thing is, people swear more now than they did 20-30 years ago. Fing and blinding like mad, it's not a big deal to many people to say F'off, the parents may literally think that way, not perceive it as you do (and as I would, too, mind). That's a cultural thing.

Knives is different, but are the excuses you cited due to parnts spoiling their kids in every way, as the report was talking about? Or just trying to find some way to get the kid back to school.

I would put it at about 1% of 'hard core real disuptive kids. These take along (or a regular basis) another 4-5% of 'silly, easily led' kids.

So the numbers are not that large. But this is happeneing in every lesson that these kids go into. And the education of the rest of the children is being disruped on a regular basis.

And this is in the school that I work in. Some schools will be better, some will be worse.

Re the 'How do parents stop the schools punishing the kids'

They will refuse to allow the kids to do detentions. And if we don't get their permission the kids can't do the detention. They will often not answer letters or phone class or attend meetings to discus their child's behaviour in school.

Re the swearing, do a degree I see your point, but there is a world of a difference between kids casually swearing to each other, in the general run of a conversation, and a large 16 year old facing up to you and telling you to 'Fuck off'. I don't think that I should have to put up with that in work any more than I would put up with it on the street.

Parents will tell their children that they were 'right to defend themselves', when the child insitgated the fight. these are parents who will never accept that their child can be in the wrong. Whatever the circumstances. and that lets the kid's behaviour get worse and worse

I have to disagree with flack the children who in my experience cause the disruption in class aren't all from poor backgrounds. In fact many come from nice middle class homes with parents who discover too late that if only they had said no earlier their own lives and their children's lives might have been happier.

Hear hear mrz

A significant proportion of my more challenging students come from outwardly 'nice' m/c families, agreed, although I would challenge the use of the word 'nice'. Problems exist in those families as in any other, such as alcoholism, violence, family breakup, financial woes or just parents who have given in/ been worn down.

I emailed home about a 17 yr old's lack of h/w and had a email back telling me he had sworn at his mother and roughed up his father, so they weren't going to pursue a missing essay.

And some parents can convince themselves that they're supporting the school by saying something along the lines of "I'm not condoning his behaviour... BUT...." and therein lies part of the problem. The very fact that they're then going off at a tangent with the "but" deflects the blame. Usually towards someone else. Someone else was doing it too, someone else started it, the teacher didn't listen to his side properly etc.. All smoke and mirrors stuff.