Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

News

First execution using nitrogen

349 replies

Jenry · 26/01/2024 09:28

Alabama has executed a man using nitrogen flowing through a mask for the first time. Warning - distressing detail in the article.
how is this allowed to happen in this day and age? It’s inhumane.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-68085513.amp

Kenneth Eugene Smith poses for a mugshot

Alabama carries out first nitrogen gas execution - BBC News

The untested method was approved after lethal injection drugs became more difficult to obtain.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-68085513.amp

OP posts:
CormorantStrikesBack · 26/01/2024 11:02

Horrific. Him being a murderer doesn’t excuse this. I don’t agree with the death penalty full stop but this is particularly cruel.

FlannelandPuce · 26/01/2024 11:04

I think regardless of how emotive we feel about the crime he committed, the state needs to be dispassionate in the way it addresses justice.

If a crime is committed then the state agreed consequences should be adhered to. In implicating justice the state needs to be transparent, and have moral basis in their decision. That is where I think using the death sentence as punishment fails.

If we decree that murder is a crime, then it should not be used as a method of justice.

shearwater2 · 26/01/2024 11:04

Though here in the UK, if he murdered a woman in 1988 he'd almost be certain to be free to do it again by now, and I don't agree with that either. People seem to get longer for fraud than many offences against the person here and it's so wrong.

BIanc · 26/01/2024 11:07

WandaWonder · 26/01/2024 11:00

Maybe they could die the same way their victims did

Quite traumatising is your loved one was killed to see someone else die that way for most people, you'd basically be seeing into their last moments

LakeTiticaca · 26/01/2024 11:07

Does anyone think that people like Roy Whiting and Robert Black deserve humanity? Those who rape and murder children?
Those who do this thoroughly deserve to swing
No compassion, no humanity, after all they had none for their victims and their victims families who will never be released from the horror

Snugglemonkey · 26/01/2024 11:09

I do not think there is anything humane about killing anyone.

Alwaysalwayscold · 26/01/2024 11:09

I am firmly against the death penalty, however I don't understand why a country that's so obsessed with guns can't manage a single gunshot to the head. Or even a firing squad.

I also think there's something really absurd about the need for these deaths to be 'humane'.

shearwater2 · 26/01/2024 11:10

If people have done terrible things it doesn't mean the punishment has to stoop to their level. The state has to be the better person for the good of humanity and its citizens. Someone killing another human being is one thing, the state doing so as part of its criminal justice system is quite another.

BassoContinuo · 26/01/2024 11:10

LakeTiticaca · 26/01/2024 11:07

Does anyone think that people like Roy Whiting and Robert Black deserve humanity? Those who rape and murder children?
Those who do this thoroughly deserve to swing
No compassion, no humanity, after all they had none for their victims and their victims families who will never be released from the horror

Yes.

Because although they are evil, we are not.

I don’t agree with the death penalty; for me it has no place in a civilised society. But if it has to exist, it should be carried out as humanely as possible.

BIanc · 26/01/2024 11:11

LakeTiticaca · 26/01/2024 11:07

Does anyone think that people like Roy Whiting and Robert Black deserve humanity? Those who rape and murder children?
Those who do this thoroughly deserve to swing
No compassion, no humanity, after all they had none for their victims and their victims families who will never be released from the horror

There are some truly evil people in this world, which is exactly why some people feel life isn't enough and their despicable crimes deserve worse. Those who murder/torture children spring to mind.

Not all those condemned to death are that evil, which I have to say, I have a problem with.

Megifer · 26/01/2024 11:13

Awwww, what a shame.

MayThe4th · 26/01/2024 11:14

So for those who are pro the death penalty, how would you feel about your son coming home and announcing that he’s decided to become an executioner. For him to pop round after killing the latest person on the list? And for it to then turn out that the person he’d executed before coming home to his roast dinner was innocent.

Would it fill you with pride to know what he did?

Would you happy to tell all your friends and family, or your DH for that matter, was an executioner?

Would you want him to tell you all the gory details of how the person died?

It’s easy to sit here and talk about how you think x should be done, but that’s because you’re not the one doing it, or living it.

MrsSkylerWhite · 26/01/2024 11:15

sashh
**
There is a Jewish organisation that have campaigned against thes. They campaign against the death penalty in all forms, but understandably, death by gas is particularly problematic.

This occurred to me, too, when I heard about this man. I disagree with the death penalty full stop. This method though must be deeply distressing to many people, particularly in light of the current situation in the Middle East, the threat of Trump returning and pulling out of NATO and the implications of that.
All of that aside, though, on a simple human level it’s barbarous.

Zodfa · 26/01/2024 11:15

Current US capital punishment seems to have arisen from an unspoken sense that classic methods of execution were primitive and barbaric, leading them to replace them with "modern" methods - that turn out to be even worse.

puncheur · 26/01/2024 11:16

snowlady4 · 26/01/2024 10:59

I'm not up on all the facts on the case- or the way they do things in America- but it seems barbaric to have only one person trying to get access for 6 hours. An awful lot of pressure on that person. The prisoner obviously had terrible access but they still should have been able to get someone to get access- even if it meant organising an anesthetist and ultrasound machine for another day. Bizarre to me that the next step is to gas someone to death instead.
Absolutely- 35 years. I can't quite get my head around the American justice system, in many ways.

No anesthetist is going to be involved in an execution. None of the people involved in these executions are trained medics or nurses - they are prison guards who have 'learned' how to insert IV lines from old military training videos. And it's all moot now anyway as the prisons can't get the drugs, and can't find any guards willing to volunteer for the duty. Hence trying alternative methods.

ArchetypalBusyMum · 26/01/2024 11:16

IncompleteSenten · 26/01/2024 09:54

Leaving aside the issue of the death penalty itself and focusing entirely on methods

Why nitrogen instead of helium.
Helium doesn't make the body react in any way. Unlike other forms of suffocation, the body doesn't realise it's not getting oxygen. It is a physically pain free method.

Yes, or carbon monoxide. People accidentally die this way at home and don't even realise it's happening, they just go to sleep.

Neriah · 26/01/2024 11:19

shearwater2 · 26/01/2024 11:04

Though here in the UK, if he murdered a woman in 1988 he'd almost be certain to be free to do it again by now, and I don't agree with that either. People seem to get longer for fraud than many offences against the person here and it's so wrong.

Nicely emotive there. But the facts are that globally recidivism rates for murder (people who have been imprisoned for murder and then released at the end of their sentence) are least likely to reoffend. If you want to stop people re-offending then you need to be excecuting thieves - they have one of the highest recidivism levels. Or if that is a step too far we could just go back to cutting off their hands...

Inextremis · 26/01/2024 11:19

I believe that the death penalty is both wrong and unnecessary. I also believe that - in the US - it's a political tool.

Comedycook · 26/01/2024 11:20

LakeTiticaca · 26/01/2024 11:07

Does anyone think that people like Roy Whiting and Robert Black deserve humanity? Those who rape and murder children?
Those who do this thoroughly deserve to swing
No compassion, no humanity, after all they had none for their victims and their victims families who will never be released from the horror

For me I'm against the death penalty....not because I think those crimes are fine but because regardless I do not believe the state should be able to kill. Does someone who kills a child deserve to die? Well yes. But my fundamental belief is that the state should not be able to kill people.

puncheur · 26/01/2024 11:21

Alwaysalwayscold · 26/01/2024 11:09

I am firmly against the death penalty, however I don't understand why a country that's so obsessed with guns can't manage a single gunshot to the head. Or even a firing squad.

I also think there's something really absurd about the need for these deaths to be 'humane'.

There are a few states that still has death by firing squad. They all have trouble getting enough volunteers. Strangely enough, most prison guards don't want to kill prisoners they've got to know over years, sometimes decades.

PumpkinsAndCoconuts · 26/01/2024 11:25

WillYouPutYourCoatOn · 26/01/2024 09:41

Without being too gruesome and callous, I don't understand how it's so "easy" to put an animal to sleep, so why can't we just use the equivalent here? Or is that literally what the lethal injection is? I didn't know if the animal one was intravenous or just an injection.

Same. My cat (covered in dense fur, very dehydrated) was first sedated. She fell asleep (and according to the vet the second injection probably wouldn´t have been necessary because she was so weak) and then received the euthanasia injection. And it seems so much more humane than whatever this man (murderer he may be, but he was still human!) had to endure.

It honestly sounds akin to some sort of medieval torture chamber. And I suspect that the executioners aren´t approriately qualified. Seeing as no trained nurse or doctor would (or could) particiapte in this.

When no workable veins could be found, Blue Scrubs instructed the prison guards to flip the gurney backward so that the prisoner’s feet pointed towards the ceiling while his head bowed to the ground. Smith now found himself, curiously for a man of religion, in an inverse crucifixion.
Then the IV team left the chamber, leaving him in that position for several minutes. On their return, they righted the gurney.
Red Scrubs, swathed now in face mask and shield to protect himself from splattering blood, produced a large-gauge needle. He began piercing it under Smith’s collarbone “in an attempt to begin a central line IV in his subclavian artery”.
After five or six jabs, still with no success, a deputy warden moved Smith’s head to the side to provide a clearer run for the needle.
When Smith protested, the deputy warden clasping his head reportedly told him: “Kenny, this is for your own good.”

But these are not normal times, especially in Alabama.
On three occasions in the past four months, Alabama’s department of corrections has bungled its lethal injections procedure. In each case, IV teams struggled for hours to find a vein through which to pour the lethal cocktail set out in the state’s execution protocols.

A bullet to the head probably would have been more human and ethical than this kind of torture they managed to come up with.
The fact that the jury didn´t even sentence him to death but was overruled by a judge is absolutely mindblowing as well.

puncheur · 26/01/2024 11:27

ArchetypalBusyMum · 26/01/2024 11:16

Yes, or carbon monoxide. People accidentally die this way at home and don't even realise it's happening, they just go to sleep.

Getting hold of helium is going to face the same issues that getting hold of lethal injection drugs has: a prison has no other uses for helium so it is going to be obvious what it is going to be used for (there are lots of legitimate uses for nitrogen in any large facility). Same with carbon monoxide, it's available bottled as it's used in scientific research, no-one is going to sell it to a prison. And administering it without endangering others is going to be really tricky.

The problem that US prisons face is that no-one with the medical/engineering/scientific know-how and means to execute people wants to be involved in the process. Even ordinary prison guards don't want to be involved and they really struggle to find anyone to do it.

LakeTiticaca · 26/01/2024 11:31

A large dose of barbiturates will off someone pretty quickly

NotDavidTennant · 26/01/2024 11:34

IncompleteSenten · 26/01/2024 09:54

Leaving aside the issue of the death penalty itself and focusing entirely on methods

Why nitrogen instead of helium.
Helium doesn't make the body react in any way. Unlike other forms of suffocation, the body doesn't realise it's not getting oxygen. It is a physically pain free method.

Nitrogen works the same way as helium. They both cause what's called "inert gas asphyxiation". Because the gas is non-toxic and doesn't induce feelings of suffocation it is in theory a painless way to die and has been proposed as a method for euthanasia.

If they are going to execute people (and I'm not saying they should) this is probably one of the more humane methods they could use.

Snugglemonkey · 26/01/2024 11:35

Hamsterinaball · 26/01/2024 10:05

Oh please, anyone thinking this is "inhumane" want to go into a slaughterhouse and watch how pigs are killed!

Same way and you hear the poor things screaming and thrashing!

That is just whataboutery. Neither is OK.

Swipe left for the next trending thread