First execution using nitrogen

[Jenry]

Alabama has executed a man using nitrogen flowing through a mask for the first time. Warning - distressing detail in the article.
how is this allowed to happen in this day and age? It’s inhumane.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-68085513.amp

But people were put in prison in the post office scandal. Ok it's not murder but all these modern crime investigation techniques did not stop this miscarriage of justice.

You’ve ignored what I’ve said.

Again I’m talking about crimes with DNA evidence. And again, if you think police are lying and falsifying evidence, no one should be jailed ever! The post office scandal didn’t get investigated like a normal crime from what I’ve read and watched on the tv programme, but that’s another thread and I’m not here to talk about that.

Recent crimes with evidence including DNA...I don’t think you’ll be hearing about too many miscarriages of justice. Do you?

There’s evidence that the quality of UK juries is poor.

I wouldn’t have thought US juries were any better. (The interviews with some of the jury members on the Michael Jackson trial spring to mind). Any system where you’re selecting people at random from the population carries the risk of recruiting some incredibly stupid or biased people for your jury. Plus, for a death penalty case, you’ve got the added complication of trying to select people who are not against the death penalty per se so you’ve already got a bias.

I was thinking more of deficiencies in the justice system itself, not inequalities in societies that produce disproportionate outcomes

But surely the inequalities in broader society result in inequality in the justice system anyway so where the deficiency originates is surely irrelevant.

A miscarriage of justice though is within the realms of possibility. Even the tiniest risk is enough for me to not support the death penalty. It's unfortunate if people are falsely imprisoned but not totally unfixable.

Even the tiniest risk is enough for me to not support the death penalty.

That’s fine but others disagree with you. That doesn’t make them tabloid reader types and you just sound silly and intolerant of other views.

It's unfortunate if people are falsely imprisoned but not totally unfixable.

You’re naive if you think being wrong convicted and imprisoned is fixable. When it happens, people say it’s terrible, agree they should be compensated, act outraged and then forget all about them. They are often still ostracised from society, struggle to get work, struggle to form meaningful relationships etc. But you feel better because they’re ‘free’ and are ‘compensated’.

@WhatDidTheyFeedSmellyCat Agree that it is awful when innocent people have to serve prison sentences. I agree with you that it can ruin their lives. But in most cases it is still better than being dead.

The alternative is what? Just never convicting anyone of anything? Our justice systems are imperfect- they can’t ever be perfect. And so being wrongfully imprisoned is marginally better than being wrongfully put to death.

Agree.

We accept prison sentences are necessary for public safety therefore we take the risk of occasionally imprisoning someone who is innocent. That's bad enough but killing them is just unthinkable

That's bad enough but killing them is just unthinkable

In recent cases, with advances in forensics, it would be highly, highly unlikely they would be innocent, so it’s not unthinkable to kill them. No point paying to keep evil who gave no place in society.

Anyway, everyone has their view, no one is likely to change their opinion so it’s all a bit pointless to keep going round in circles.

*have

Like Andrew Malkinson for example.

Oops.

I'm looking for some signatures for a petition I'm starting to get rid of the court of appeal. And supreme court.

After all, in our now perfect justice system they aren't needed and the money can go towards paying our MPs a decent salary.

Obviously quite a few posters here will sign. Just post it here.

Like Andrew Malkinson for example.

Oops.

I’ve looked him up as I’m not from the U.K, he was jailed 20 ish years ago? And there was no DNA evidence linking him? So yes, oops to you, because I’ve stated that I’m in support of the death penalty for recent cases with evidence including DNA evidence.

Also, are you aware of the advances in forensics in the last 20 years? I presume the U.K. is similar to here in the US. Look it up if not because they’re huge.

Anyway, I’m off out. 🍷

DNA evidence is not perfect, all it tells you is that that person's DNA has been found there.

It doesn't tell you that someone was there, it doesn't tell you how it got there.

Barry George was convicted on a spec of gun residue, you could pick that up by sitting on a bus, or it could get there if the forensic lab are not as careful with their procedures.

Adding in to that the US system where your lawyer can sleep through the trial and not be considered ineffective.

As for, "What if it was your child / spouse/best friend..." what if they are guilty? They are still your child / spouse/best friend...

It depends on the crime, some will be harder to prove than others.

If a child is found with fatal injuries/extreme neglect and were in the care of a parent, there's only one (maybe two) people who could have done it.

If a sex worker is found dead, it might be harder to pinpoint who is responsible.

There are some crimes which are indisputable and others are more on the balance of probability.

Why?

So they can't reoffend? They can't do that in prison

Think of it another way... death penalty is the easy way out, compared to suffering your life in prison.

Until you suddenly discover that the person was innocent….

ok but this particular guy wasn’t innocent.

Honestly this state should consult with Canada since they euthanise tons of people every year

Would you still 🤔 be against the death penalty if worst case senerio a heinous crime was committed against a loved one of yours then?

Yes. As a bereaved mother I’d know the pain of loosing a child and I’d not want another woman to go through it also. I don’t know how people cope knowing that today’s the day my child will be executed.

Yes. As a bereaved mother I’d know the pain of loosing a child and I’d not want another woman to go through it also. I don’t know how people cope knowing that today’s the day my child will be executed

They should actually be coping with the fact their son became such a monster.

Relatives of criminals should not be the ones being punished. There’s no ‘should’ about their reactions.

Obviously, it’s inevitable that relatives suffer when someone is jailed, loses a job or incurs any other consequences of criminal activity, but given that there are less drastic alternatives to the death penalty it’s right to take into account the impact on families. Which if you stop to consider for a moment, includes not only parents (who you imply are always at fault and deserving of what’s coming their way) but also children, siblings and others.

I have to say, I really don’t care about the impact on a violent criminals family. They would be better off without them anyway.

Tracie Andrew's daughter was about 7 when her mother went to prison.

I know that was in the UK so no chance of the death sentence, but I do have sympathy for a 7 year old.

It doesn't mean I think Andrews / whatever name she is using now should not have been in prison, I'm not sure I think she should have been released.

If they use other inert gases then people just go to sleep but they don't like that idea in America because it's not punitive enough.

There’s nothing quintessentially “America” about it. The extent to which criminal justice should be punitive remains at the forefront of all discussion around criminal justice worldwide. How it’s played out with the death penalty is much the same as with prison and how we feel about its purpose. Should the death penalty / prison simply be about protecting the public by removing the offender from society? Should there also be an element of suffering involved, as payback for the suffering the offender caused? It’s under constant debate in the U.K. as to whether prison is “too cushy” i.e. punitive enough or whether offenders should also be subject to very uncomfortable and unpleasant conditions. Ultimately, I don’t think there’s any society which has a universal view of exactly what it’s trying to achieve with the punishments its criminal justice system sets.

I can’t find the post now but thanks to whoever it was upthread that recommended the ‘Killing Death Row’ podcast- it was absolutely fascinating. Unbelievable that one US prison had to resort to buying their lethal injection drugs from some one-man-band pharmacist operating out of a driving school office in Acton! All perfectly legal apparently but utterly bizarre.