First execution using nitrogen

[Jenry]

Alabama has executed a man using nitrogen flowing through a mask for the first time. Warning - distressing detail in the article.
how is this allowed to happen in this day and age? It’s inhumane.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-68085513.amp

I agree, such people would be inconsistent. I just don't think there are very many of them who are anti death penalty but pro shoot-to-kill under any circumstances.

I'm guessing you think it's ludicrous that we shouldn't shoot terrorists when we can, or not fight wars?

i’ve worked in a prison full time for over 20 years. VAST majority go out with same or worse mindset and attitude than they come in with
That's a very poor reflection on our prison system, not an argument for the death penalty.

That’s not what deterrent means.

@JohnMytton It’s possible you’re underestimating how many of those who oppose the death penalty would also oppose shooting a terrorist with the intention of killing them (as opposed to shooting them with the intention of stopping them committing a major crime).

The difference with the death penalty is that the only purpose of the action is to kill. The other examples you give have other purposes and the deaths (particularly of innocent people) are unintended.

my point is, for serious crimes they may as well face the death penalty because vast majority never change and will be released just the same

So put effort into changing that. You can’t just shrug and say ‘we can’t think what else to do with you so we’ll kill you’.

There are some seriously sick fucked up people on this thread.
it’s one thing agreeing with the death penalty, I don’t but to each their own. But thinking up mrythods of killing people and positively loving the idea of causing untold suffering is on another level entirely.

This.

It is never justified in my view. I find the thought of it appalling and this case has sickened me.

No, it doesn't. By that token we should have capital punishment for any crime because the victims may be "grateful" if the perpetrators are dead.

We cannot as a society say that killing is the worst offence and then descend to killing people ourselves.

More likely that he would be free and living a blameless and worthwhile life. That happens much more frequently in life sentence cases. Do you agree with that?

Virtually no-one gets longer for fraud than a life sentence. Even once released, people with life sentences are only out on licence and may be recalled without notice for the slightest offence.

I think they deserve to be deprived of liberty and kept in prison for decades and potentially for their whole lives.

What would you say should happen to a man convicted of abducting and murdering a girl of 11, leaving 12 stab wounds and semen on her clothing and underwear? Would you say that man deserves to swing?

Would you say that still applies when you learn that the convicted man was Stefan Kiszko, he had a mental age of 12, that evidence exonerating him had been suppressed by the police, and it was conclusively proved 16 years later that he was innocent? Would you still feel he deserved to swing?

That is just one of far too many wrongful murder convictions. That's a conclusive argument against the death penalty on its own.

Homicide rates in the US are well above those in the UK and other European countries with no death penalty. It is also higher in states that have the death penalty compared with those that don't. So the death penalty can hardly be claimed to be a deterrent.

I don't care about hanging scum.

He didn't know the consequences. The jury recommended imprisonment, not the death penalty. Although that was overturned by the judge, he could not have predicted that he would be on death row for 34 years, that he would be the victim of a badly botched execution, and that he would be gassed to death.

Just wondering all the mumsnet posters on here who are totally against capital punishment and appaled by the idea,

Would you still 🤔 be against the death penalty if worst case senerio a heinous crime was committed against a loved one of yours then?

If you still are against Capital punishment even under circumstances like that?

What would your idea of effective deterent look like to you then?
would you want and expect to happen for you to know justice had indeed taking place as respect to your loved one then?

Hypothetical question

Heinous crimes rape murder ect

Yes, I would still be against the death penalty then.

I would want the perpetrator locked up either for life or until professionals could be very sure they would not do the same to anyone else.

I would hope for them to be able to understand and feel guilty about what they’ve done and the pain they’ve caused.

He knew that he murdered an innocent person in a state that had the death penalty. There was always the possibility that his actions would cost him his life, he took that risk and lost.

If someone killed my child, would I want to see them dead? Yes of course. But that's not how the justice system should work. Do I think some really evil criminals who rape/kill children deserve to die? Yes of course.

But...it does not change the fact that I fundamentally do not believe the state has the right to kill people.

cerisepanther73 · Today 20:18
**
Just wondering all the mumsnet posters on here who are totally against capital punishment and appaled by the idea,
**
Would you still 🤔 be against the death penalty if worst case senerio a heinous crime was committed against a loved one of yours then?
**
If you still are against Capital punishment even under circumstances like that?
**
What would your idea of effective deterent look like to you then?
would you want and expect to happen for you to know justice had indeed taking place as respect to your loved one then?
**
Hypothetical question
**
Heinous crimes rape murder”

My instinct would be to want to kill them, I expect. I don’t believe I could do that, though. If I am unable to do so, I certainly would not expect someone else to do that on my behalf. To my mind, that’s the easy way out for them, anyway.

If - somehow (and restorative justice has proven pretty successful) - the perpetrator could be made to process and understand what they had done, the effect of their actions on others and to feel genuine remorse for what they had done, that to me would be a far more fitting punishment. Every day for the rest of their life they would have to emotionally deal with the sheer inhumanity of their barbarous crime and carry it with them until the day they died, as the family and loved ones of their victim will. Additionally, they should be prevented from seeing/communicating with family or friends for their entirety of their sentence, as the family and friends of the victim are prevented from ever again seeing their loved one.
To my mind, that relentless mental torture would be a far more fitting punishment. I would also hope that they lived a long life, much of it in prison.

The thing is, you can apply this to any punishment. It's just not a good argument (there are good arguments, but this isn't one).

For instance, "It's utterly hypocritical for a state to say that taking other people's money is a crime, only to take money itself."

Or, "It is utterly hypocritical for a state to say that keeping someone captive is a crime, only to lock people up itself."

Any punishment a state gives will almost certainly be something that it's against the law to do to, say, your next door neighbour.

I oppose the death penalty on the basis that innocent people dying in order to maintain something that has no tangible benefit to society is unacceptable.

Maintaining the death penalty is not worth the loss of a single innocent life. There are other situations where the loss of innocent life - awful though that is - is outweighed by other benefits.

It’s a perfectly consistent position. It’s not a different argument. It just isn’t the black and white thinking you’re applying.

Are you one of these people that brings up how if we’re going to ban [dangerous and completely unnecessary thing], we should also ban all cars because people die in car accidents? Because this is the same thing. What is justifiable in one situation is not necessarily justifiable in another.