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Dominic Cummings Covid evidence

996 replies

Newtonianmechanics · 31/10/2023 09:17

Is anyone going to watch this man give evidence today?

Apparently there is a vigil in Barnard Castle ahead of this.

The shopping trolleys emoji seems to mean they think Carrie was controlling Boris from the last few days. Wonder if this will feature.

OP posts:
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28
PerkingFaintly · 03/11/2023 13:48

Thank you, always helpful to have explainers, minou!

I knew that, despite his heartfelt desire(!), Cummings had not been able to get MacNamara sacked.

You've set out very clearly why! Very useful to see.

bombastix · 03/11/2023 13:56

MidnightOnceMore · 03/11/2023 12:57

Agree with this: really powerful PMs need to play happily with institutions to get what you want

The Tories since 2019 have wasted so much energy falling out with people they needed to work with. It is amazing how they threw away their 80 seat electoral acheivement.

If they had handled the pandemic and Brexit properly, they would potentially have been in such a different place.

It is an amazing implosion. You have to remember that on that win in 2019, the talk was Johnson in power for a decade. That seemed plausible, because of the swing he achieved. Much has changed since then. The Labour Party have got rid of an extreme leader and COVID made it clear that Johnson was only a man for the summer season. Whatever you might think about the Civil Service and I don't think Cummings was wrong in some of his criticisms, the supposition that it all had to be done in a drain the swamp moment meant failure was inevitable. To destroy an institution or even start to change it you must first work within it, build allies, and learn its weaknesses. The silkiest, most effective political operators know this well. It is also a truth that doesn't go down very well with a narrative about the blob, the Estsblishment, the BBC, the lefty judiciary or whatever. But is true. History shows it. Britain seems to have had quite a lot of ideological spasms since 2019 but long term, unless you are going to declare it's a presidential system then you have to mediate your changes via what you have. And then change it. It's a long game.

PerkingFaintly · 03/11/2023 13:57

It's also ironic that Cummings expended so much hot air denigrating not just MacNamara, but the whole Civil Service as a "Blob" to be burnt to the ground.

Yet here he is belatedly admitting that if he had had the power to throw Civil Servants out, the Cabinet Office would have been deprived of one of the few members (according to Cummings) who had any understanding of the impact on women and children.

Seems his judgment isn't terribly sound.

MidnightOnceMore · 03/11/2023 13:58

beguilingeyes · 03/11/2023 13:45

Electoral accountability isn't enough. Is there some sort of Govt. version of Corporate Manslaughter? These arseholes destroy things and swan off into the sunset. See also David Cameron.

Yes the whistling Cameron was infuriating.

However he was covered as the electorate voted for that.

PerkingFaintly · 03/11/2023 13:59

X-post with your more sophisticated take, bombastix!

MidnightOnceMore · 03/11/2023 14:00

You have to remember that on that win in 2019, the talk was Johnson in power for a decade. Poor old Johnson, what rotten luck for him, denied his destiny.

bombastix · 03/11/2023 14:03

The life of a special adviser is akin to a butterfly. It is short, showy and often ends prematurely. Politics is very rough. A few will make to being elected. A lot more get squashed

bombastix · 03/11/2023 14:07

MidnightOnceMore · 03/11/2023 14:00

You have to remember that on that win in 2019, the talk was Johnson in power for a decade. Poor old Johnson, what rotten luck for him, denied his destiny.

I am teasing a little. But honestly he had it all. And then he allowed Cummings to start wars everywhere in a system he needed to deliver. I think the funniest analogy was that Johnson was the sleeping King in Lord of the Rings and Cummings was Wormtongue. Once they killed off Wormtongue then King Johnson would become wonderful again. I don't even think the person who told me believed it, but was more hopeful than anything else.

jgw1 · 03/11/2023 14:08

MidnightOnceMore · 03/11/2023 12:03

But what is in that report is what I called for too.

It is what the Labour party called for.

Charities.

Children's commissioner.

Teachers.

It is basic stuff. We all recognised the structural gaps.

Will I cause trouble if I also point out that it is what the teaching unions were pleading for the government to do as well?

But of course grouse shooting and going to the pub was more important.

bombastix · 03/11/2023 14:10

What do they say; grouse is what the right eat and the left do.

I am centrist. I do both

MidnightOnceMore · 03/11/2023 14:11

Don't start that topic back up again @jgw1 Grin

But yes, the unions called for all sorts of sensible things that were ignored.

EasternStandard · 03/11/2023 14:11

Will I cause trouble if I also point out that it is what the teaching unions were pleading for the government to do as well?

Does that include making schools essential infrastructure?

minou123 · 03/11/2023 14:12

bombastix · 03/11/2023 14:03

The life of a special adviser is akin to a butterfly. It is short, showy and often ends prematurely. Politics is very rough. A few will make to being elected. A lot more get squashed

That's brilliant. I love this. Sums up Special Advisers perfectly. 😁

I do agree with your post about the Civil Service criticisms.
As a Civil Servant, I'm aware I am a little biased.
Working within it can be incredibly frustrating. Changes and improvments are so slow. I can't begin to tell you how many times I've got exasperated when I've tried to fix or get things moved along quickly. So I fully understand the criticisms.

jgw1 · 03/11/2023 14:20

EasternStandard · 03/11/2023 14:11

Will I cause trouble if I also point out that it is what the teaching unions were pleading for the government to do as well?

Does that include making schools essential infrastructure?

If schools were essential infrastructure then the current Education Secretary, who is of course also responsible for ensuring the interests of children are considered at Cabinet, would have had to accept that they were responsible for ensuring school buildings were not falling down, rather than blaming that on everyone else.

EasternStandard · 03/11/2023 14:26

jgw1 · 03/11/2023 14:20

If schools were essential infrastructure then the current Education Secretary, who is of course also responsible for ensuring the interests of children are considered at Cabinet, would have had to accept that they were responsible for ensuring school buildings were not falling down, rather than blaming that on everyone else.

Another side step answer rather than a yes or no

I recall it being shot down during the pandemic. Maybe STC will help get the public onside and it’ll go through.

Would be good if so.

EasternStandard · 03/11/2023 14:33

I can’t think of a SPAD that’s had the impact on the U.K. Cummings has

Idk what happened to cause his firing, and then use partygate in the way he did but he shaped where we are by a large amount

His long winded stuff isn’t that coherent but the short lines for campaigns were incredibly effective and recent R4 programme on winning a campaign was good

DuncinToffee · 03/11/2023 14:33

I recall it being shot down during the pandemic

By whom, MN or the Government?

(assuming with it, you mean school's infrastructure)

Borageandchips · 03/11/2023 14:35

I really think that in the event of war, or a pandemic, or some other serious crisis, then the current government of the day should have to make way to a cross-party team of experts in pertinent areas. Something like Cobra but bigger and made up of representatives of all political persuasions with experienced members of the House of Lords too and all of this ridiculous in-fighting could be avoided and odious men like Dominic Cummings could not flex his ego to the extent he did.

KnickerlessParsons · 03/11/2023 14:42

Borageandchips · 03/11/2023 14:35

I really think that in the event of war, or a pandemic, or some other serious crisis, then the current government of the day should have to make way to a cross-party team of experts in pertinent areas. Something like Cobra but bigger and made up of representatives of all political persuasions with experienced members of the House of Lords too and all of this ridiculous in-fighting could be avoided and odious men like Dominic Cummings could not flex his ego to the extent he did.

I agree, and said so at the time

Labour agreed to support all govt decisions during the pandemic, but it would have been better to go one step further and have a joint committee.
My guess is that it wouldn't have changed much - fewer parties perhaps (or maybe not) but decisions were made in the heat of the moment, with new information at every turn and no real established process to follow (or at least none that had been written by someone who had actually experienced a pandemic), I don't think the decisions made would have been any better. Different perhaps, but no better.

jgw1 · 03/11/2023 14:48

EasternStandard · 03/11/2023 14:26

Another side step answer rather than a yes or no

I recall it being shot down during the pandemic. Maybe STC will help get the public onside and it’ll go through.

Would be good if so.

I thought it a good illustration of the quality or lack thereof of the kind of person who could have been Cabinet Minister for Children during the pandemic.

Any progress on which Cabinet position is being removed to make way for this new post?

EasternStandard · 03/11/2023 14:50

jgw1 · 03/11/2023 14:48

I thought it a good illustration of the quality or lack thereof of the kind of person who could have been Cabinet Minister for Children during the pandemic.

Any progress on which Cabinet position is being removed to make way for this new post?

After you, yes or no for essential infrastructure for schools

DuncinToffee · 03/11/2023 14:56

EasternStandard · 03/11/2023 14:50

After you, yes or no for essential infrastructure for schools

Maybe you could state what you mean exactly with 'essential infrastructure for schools'

EasternStandard · 03/11/2023 15:06

DuncinToffee · 03/11/2023 14:56

Maybe you could state what you mean exactly with 'essential infrastructure for schools'

It won’t be what I mean it will be the U.K. definition. It’ll be easy to google

DuncinToffee · 03/11/2023 15:09

EasternStandard · 03/11/2023 15:06

It won’t be what I mean it will be the U.K. definition. It’ll be easy to google

So you do not know what you by it?

EasternStandard · 03/11/2023 15:11

DuncinToffee · 03/11/2023 15:09

So you do not know what you by it?

I do and did when it was first proposed as it’s easy to find.

I’m sure you are capable of finding it if you put the words in google.
.