Respect for dead "at all time low"

[varicoseveined]

here

Madamez, if your comment about smashing mirrors related to Judaism, AFAIK that's not the way it's done these days - mirrors are covered or obscured.

sad
but how shocking and shallow that piercy man

Really, how often are people actually inconvenienced by funeral corteges? I used to live near a funeral home and I don't recall ever being held up. Ime, a large cortege is a rare event nowadays and as the nearest city to me is almost all a 20mph zone anyway, a funeral procession wouldn't make much difference.

Edam: I don't actually know what tradition the mirror smashing comes from, just vaguely remember hearing about it somewhere. I think (and no disrespect is intended to anyone) that Romany traditions do (or did) include smashing and burning all the possessions of the dead person - anyone else know anything about that? I do actually find different traditions quite interesting, but I'm also interested in the core question: how much right do people have to inconveneince others who are not involved?

The problem is that there are different levels of incovenience. The examples given here range from being frustrated at being delayed, to an ambulance unable to get through. There's a world of difference. I don't know if an ambulance has ever been delayed by a cortege, and clearly I think the bereaved would sympathise with that, but the former example is just selfish, and lacking in respect for others' feelings.

Well, I think most posters on this thread have said it's not unreasonable to wait a few seconds for a funeral procession to go past. It's not going to change your life. But it might just help the people who are grieving, in some tiny way. While beeping your horn and insisting 'I'm important, let me through!' might cause added distress.

I used to work in an area of London where they did funerals properly - the whole street used to come out, all the curtains would be drawn and so on. It was nice to see such solidarity.

I live very near to a funeral parlour. I tell visitors to turn right at the Co-op, at least 3 x per weeks there is a fecking huge funeral on. It does my bits in - I am late for Uni, the kids are late for some arrangment or the other, DH is late for work or a meeting. Honestly we can't get out our carpark if there is a large funeral on. On another 2 or 3 occasions a week we are stuck behind the procession on our way over the river.

Does it annoy me or DH? No. Does it annoy our children. No. We tell them to not shout or run. I turn the car music or DVD off.

It costs us nothing, a few minutes but may make a huge difference to the memories/experiences of those involved. It teaches my children that the world does not revolve around them and their needs sometimes are not the most important thing in the world.

some of the points on this thread sound abit like an argument just for the sake of it? How much of a problem do funeral processions really cause any one person? we live near a busy crematorium/grave yard and ive never really noticed any majour traffic issue caused by a funeral. Ok you might get stuck behind one once in a blue moon but that 5 mins hardly makes a big difference to your lif does it?

Surely we all inconvenience others and are inconvenienced ourselves every single day? Someone with a buggy blocking an aisle in a shop when I'm in a hurry inconveniences me. Do I think they should not go out with their child? Of course I don't! Someone pressing the button on a pelican crossing as I approach in my car inconveniences me; should they wait until there is no traffic about before pressing the button? It's all part and parcel of life.

My husband needs to put his point of view forward to you Madamez. The cortege has every right to hold up any traffic anywhere. You have no idea of the shock of being bereaved that is obvious. When our children died we all wanted to die with them. You obviously have children or you wouldnt be on mumsnet. Imagine the shock of putting a childs body in a coffin - it is feckin shite. Walking down an aisle to bury your child when you should be walking down an aisle to see them married or to christen their children. This thread has annoyed my wife of 30 years to the point where I have to speak up. You obviously have no respect for any religion or anyones feelings - I FEEL SORRY FOR YOUR IGNORANCE. We, as a family will NOT be joining in this thread any further. I hope to God that nothing occurs in your life - which will cause you to think of the upset your comments have caused on here.

Shabster: why should anyone have respect for religion per se? Not all funerals feature it, for one thing. Everyone has to deal with bereavement at some point, and people deal with it in a wide variety of ways. But having strong feelings about something doesn;t necessarily make an individual right about a subject and everyone else wrong.

we have one road that leads to the crem and that also leads to the school. I finish work at 3pm, have to do the 10 min journey in 10 mins - so when there is a courtege it takes me 20 mins which means LOs waiting for me outside school, worrying.

Solutions anyone?

Would agree Madamez. God has nowt to do with loss or more accurately the pain people feel on the loss of a loved one.

Also sorry but you can't play the I have lost a child therefore my view counts more than you card. Sorry but that ain't how it works.

I will stop and teach my children to be respectful but that does not give anyone who is bereaved the right to demand such treatment from society as a whole.

I have to admit that I can't remember ever seeing a funeral cortege of any size round here. Usually a hearse and maybe one other black car. Any other cars following just get there under their own steam. When DH's grandfather died we had the whole thing with the chap stopping the traffic. But never before or since.

Surely no-one can seriously be inconvienced by a couple of cars going a little more slowly? Or are the big corteges really still that common?

gomez - it's not a question of demanding. That's the point of courtesy, it isn't demanded. It's supposed to be offered from one human being to another.

And strangely I think that someone who has suffered a tragic bereavement has probably got more to offer on this subject than someone who hasn't.

Actually I think anyone who has got beyond having adolescent attitudes to society has something to contribute to this thread.

Funeral corteges have never caused me a moment's inconvenience because I don't consider it inconvenient to let someone in the midst of a bereavement to take precendence over me for 2 minutes.

In fact I consider it convenient to slow down for once, think about strangers I don't know, think about what we all have to lose, and then move on.

No big deal. Just a little respect and common feeling.

Nothing more boring than a teenage rebel imho.

Gomez - I am shocked at your 'card' comment and TBH it displays precisely the attitude being discussed here. Shabster and her family aren't demanding your respect at all but they damn well deserve it.

Disgusting attitude from Madamez, Gomez and their like.
Ignore them, Shabster and Triplets. Their views are very much in the minority. Of course your views are more pertinent than those of people who haven't lost children - that's just common decency (or should that be uncommon?)

I am extremely sorry about your children and embarrassed about the filth you have encountered on here.

Somehow, I seem to be remembering why I haven't touched mumsnet for months.................

This is an interesting thread.... if we ignore the upset/crossness on it.

One thing that really strikes me is just how many of us remember being really moved by seeing a stranger give some acknowledgement when we've lost someone - I have exactly the same thing - when it was my grandma's funeral a jogger going past touched his (baseball) cap and somehow there was something very consoling in that!

But also, there is lots that I didn't know about customs - I'd never heard of the collar-touching thing, or everyone on the street drawing curtains. I guess it's because deaths happen so rarely (to most of us) that some of these things don't get passed on. When Grandma died my brother and I had a sense that our parents' generation knew exactly how to behave without it ever being talked about.

Maybe we should be actively trying to share some of these customs and bringing them back, because they do seem to help and it would be sad if they all died out.

Incidentally, the area where I agree with MadameZ is that the Telegraph article does seem very outraged about a few particular instances for which there might have been a good reason - I disagree that it is generally ok to cut up a cortege, but if it did happen it might have been for a reason out of the ordinary rather than general impatience.

shabster, triplets.
I am very sorry about your losses. You carry a dreadful burden every day that most of us cannot imagine.Please do not think that we make light of your situation in any way.

madamez, gomez. I see the points you are m,aking but profoundly disagree with them. Life or death situ's apart, there is no earthly reason why a 5 min inconvenience should take precedence over good manners. And that is what we are dealing with; Good Manners.Or the lack of them.

I am shocked and really saddened by some of the attitudes on here

I am struggling to understand where in someone's head they could lack the understanding for respect
we lived opposite a church for 3 years didn't know any one let alone the deceased, parking was tight when a funeral was on and I have let people pull onto my drive so they are not late and we have been late to get the children because we didn't want to interrupt the coffin from getting into the church {whilst walking)
It has never caused any inconvenience to me ever, I expect as part of a civilized society that we can let our fellow humans pay there respects and say goodbye to their loved ones in any way they wish and driving slowly for 10 minutes is no big deal in societies fast paced life

NO one would begrudge an ambulance racing past but cutting up a funeral procession to get to a job interview is disgusting

I agree with Madamez's points.