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Original poster

Is the UK really more racist than the USA?

148 replies

Blip · 07/12/2022 14:36

I always thought that the USA was way more racist than the UK but recently have heard a lot on the news that the USA generally believes the UK is a lot more racist than the USA.

Is there any kind of consensus on this?

OP posts:
NevieSticks · 07/03/2023 09:28

MangshorJhol · 07/03/2023 06:35

I have studied in Britain and spent long stretches here. I live in America in a Democrat stronghold and have done so for years. I am also not white.
They are differently racist. In my city/state/region of the US I haven’t faced racism in YEARS. It’s very liberal. My kids learn about race right from kindergarten. It’s talked about a lot post BLM. But the US has a long history of deep seated racism and if I was a black woman who worked in the service industry my experience of my own city would be different than that of a brown woman with a PhD. My husband is a primary care physician who works largely amongst unhoused folks and their experience of everyday racism in our lovely liberal corner of the US is next level.

The racism in the UK was a lot more subtle and when we spent some time in the UK I was amazed how little kids learn about this stuff in school and then in a very sanitised manner. I remember during the BLM stuff one of my white middle class British friends on a WhatsApp group saying that they she was tired of being told what else she was doing wrong…
Also the British are painfully shy about talking about race. But imply it all the time.

My guess is that having not talked about it and then having to confront it many took all the BLM stuff ‘personally.’ People don’t think that institutions or systems are racist in the UK…

Can I ask why you use the different words - black and brown? I'm not sure that I am understanding this? Is it the PhD plus the colour?

if I was a black woman who worked in the service industry my experience of my own city would be different than that of a brown woman with a PhD

SettingPrecedents · 07/03/2023 09:47

Brefugee · 07/03/2023 08:27

(and I was also told not to intervene as we were in an open carry state).

this is the 2nd or third time i've seen this comment. Why does it make a difference if they are open carry or have their Glock in a handbag? Or is there something about Open Carry states that I'm missing.

sorry to sidetrack.

Its the turn of phrase that’s been used to me. In practice the majority of the US allows open carry. In my social circle it kind of translates as “remember lots of people here will be armed”.

MangshorJhol · 07/03/2023 09:48

@NevieSticks Not 100% sure I understand your question. But I'm a brown woman with a PhD. My experience of racism in my very liberal US city is different to that of a black woman in the service industry. There is also a whole other thing about South Asians in the US sometimes being seen as a 'model minority' and in the UK as well. But there was a very sobering NYT piece recently which showed how the richest Black women in the US were at greater maternal risk during birth than the poorest white women. So you can't always separate class and race in the neat ways one would like to.

bloodyplanes · 07/03/2023 09:53

I have black friends from the US and all without exception say that the US is far more racist than the UK, however racism here in the UK is far less overt.

Morestrangethings · 07/03/2023 09:54

Blip · 07/12/2022 14:36

I always thought that the USA was way more racist than the UK but recently have heard a lot on the news that the USA generally believes the UK is a lot more racist than the USA.

Is there any kind of consensus on this?

It just occurred to me to ask what you have heard on the news that would suggest USA believes UK to be more racist?

Did they do studies?

Write articles?

Brefugee · 07/03/2023 10:05

But there was a very sobering NYT piece recently which showed how the richest Black women in the US were at greater maternal risk during birth than the poorest white women.

this is one of the biggest scandals of our times. And i wonder if we looked at stats in other countries it might reveal similar?

MangshorJhol · 07/03/2023 10:27

@Brefugee I know there has been similar work done in the UK. It's called the MMBRACE-UK report. www.npeu.ox.ac.uk/assets/downloads/mbrrace-uk/reports/maternal-report-2021/MBRRACE-UK_Maternal_Report_2021_-_Lay_Summary_v10.pdf

Brefugee · 07/03/2023 10:39

thank you - am i going to be depressed if i read that?

NevieSticks · 07/03/2023 10:47

MangshorJhol · 07/03/2023 09:48

@NevieSticks Not 100% sure I understand your question. But I'm a brown woman with a PhD. My experience of racism in my very liberal US city is different to that of a black woman in the service industry. There is also a whole other thing about South Asians in the US sometimes being seen as a 'model minority' and in the UK as well. But there was a very sobering NYT piece recently which showed how the richest Black women in the US were at greater maternal risk during birth than the poorest white women. So you can't always separate class and race in the neat ways one would like to.

Sorry - what I meant was why do you use those different words? You describe yourself as brown then and not black? I'm genuinely trying to understand here. What are your racial origins if you don't mind me asking? My Canadian friend has mixed race children and I always ask her what words are considered current with them so as not to offend.

RoseFl0wers · 07/03/2023 10:48

There’s more diverse representation in the US with regards of things like actors in films and TV shows, TV presenters, models, writers etc. It seems to be mainly just black and white people in the UK.

MangshorJhol · 07/03/2023 10:56

I mean I call myself many different things depending on who I am speaking to. I am brown skinned and South Asian. I also have a linguistic identity which my husband (who was born and brought up in the US) shares.

NevieSticks · 07/03/2023 11:03

MangshorJhol · 07/03/2023 10:56

I mean I call myself many different things depending on who I am speaking to. I am brown skinned and South Asian. I also have a linguistic identity which my husband (who was born and brought up in the US) shares.

Ah Ok. Thanks for clarifying. Terms used vary so much eg "a woman of colour" is not used commonly in the UK. Would you say that racism is worse then for black women in the USA than women of your identity ( Forget the Ph D bit) ?

NevieSticks · 07/03/2023 11:06

I used to live in the USA and have to say that I think it is much more racist than the UK. Most people in the UK couldn't care less what colour you are hence why I found the Meghan Markle thing so weird.

Morestrangethings · 07/03/2023 11:12

Brefugee · 07/03/2023 10:05

But there was a very sobering NYT piece recently which showed how the richest Black women in the US were at greater maternal risk during birth than the poorest white women.

this is one of the biggest scandals of our times. And i wonder if we looked at stats in other countries it might reveal similar?

First Nations women higher maternal death rates in Australia, last I read about it. First Nation Peoples have more trouble accessing health services & , higher education & education in general & more die in custody and more are convicted of crimes than white people who are tried for the same crimes. They have shorter life spans and this is absolutely official as they can access old age pension at 60, when other people have to wait until 67 now. It’s damning

Climbles · 07/03/2023 11:18

On holiday in South Africa about 10 years ago I was shocked how the bars were segregated. They didn’t have signs or rules but it was completely spilt. We had accidentally ended up in a white one before we clocked how segregated it was and quickly went over to the ‘black’ bar across the street. In restaurants they would have the doors on buzzers and buzz in most white people but go to the door and chat first to any black people. My partner is mixed race but light skinned and I’m white but we weren’t treated any badly in any places we went. I wonder if it’s any different.

Brefugee · 07/03/2023 11:28

They have shorter life spans and this is absolutely official as they can access old age pension at 60, when other people have to wait until 67 now.

blimey, @Morestrangethings on the one hand, good that account is taken of it, but the fact that it happens is just appalling.

Morestrangethings · 07/03/2023 11:32

Brefugee · 07/03/2023 11:28

They have shorter life spans and this is absolutely official as they can access old age pension at 60, when other people have to wait until 67 now.

blimey, @Morestrangethings on the one hand, good that account is taken of it, but the fact that it happens is just appalling.

It is shameful.

Hoppinggreen · 07/03/2023 11:50

I have no idea in general but I do know that when I have been to The Caribbean a lot of the American guests behaved very badly to the hotel staff.
Some of them warned us not to get too friendly with “that sort of people”. Genuinely clueless I asked if they meant staff and they clarified that they meant black people.
As it happened we did get quite friendly with some of the staff and they said that in general English people were less racist.
That doesn’t mean that there isnt still a huge issue with racism here in The UK though

SenecaFallsRedux · 07/03/2023 12:19

Morestrangethings · 07/03/2023 08:22

i watched the Chris Rock comedy special on Netflix last night after another mumsnetter poster recommended it. He mentioned advertising. That every couple you see in an ad now is mixed race.

So things must have have changed since you lived there.

Show quote history

Yes, there are lots of mixed race families depicted in advertising in the US these days. And that includes the Deep South, where I live.

SenecaFallsRedux · 07/03/2023 13:00

always thought that the USA was way more racist than the UK but recently have heard a lot on the news that the USA generally believes the UK is a lot more racist than the USA.

I doubt that most Americans believe that the UK is more racist than the US, but I do think that more Americans think that there is racism in the UK, when perhaps previously they did not think about that at all, or if they did, had positive views of the UK as a diverse and welcoming society. There are two primary reasons for this, I think.

One is the fairly extensive media coverage in the US of Meghan Markle's reception in the UK by certain elements in the UK media: the "straight outta Compton" and "exotic DNA" type of articles.

The second is media coverage of Brexit in the US.

I think both of these things changed the way many Americans view the UK.

YayayaCookaYaya · 07/03/2023 13:31

I know this is an old thread but bear in mind that only 37% of Americans have a passport. The majority of them have never stepped outside their own country, they have very little understanding or experience of the culture and politics of another country.

The UK is most definitely not more racist than the U.S.

SenecaFallsRedux · 07/03/2023 13:43

YayayaCookaYaya · 07/03/2023 13:31

I know this is an old thread but bear in mind that only 37% of Americans have a passport. The majority of them have never stepped outside their own country, they have very little understanding or experience of the culture and politics of another country.

The UK is most definitely not more racist than the U.S.

It's actually 44 percent.

Morestrangethings · 07/03/2023 14:56

Brefugee · 07/03/2023 09:21

But is it fair to call out someone that is mentally unwell.

yes. If they are saying shitty things they should be told. We don't know how their MH works, maybe they do that because they have some kind of racist tourettes? (is that a thing?) or just because they are a racist.

Should Jewish people, black people, or whoever the targets are, put up with racist shit being thrown at them because #BeKind? Kanye has enough money to have a minder / MH nurse with him at all times. His friends should encourage that.

I see your point, why should the people who experienced his racist rants have to put up with it. I don’t understand how having a mental health issue excuses racism either, but became unsure when another poster objected because he has mental health issues. It was only recently this poster objected so I wanted to think through it. Thanks for offering your opinion here.

Brefugee · 08/03/2023 08:12

well i wouldn't exactly shout "oi, you mental idiot, pack it in"
I would say "that is racist, pack it in" - it isn't about the person, it is about the racism. And if he, or his lackys/supporters, came back with "he can't help it he has MH issues (you bigot)" I'd tell them to stop him, as his friends/employes, being in a position to be racist to people.

The more we let racism have a pass for any reason, the longer it takes to stop it. Frankly? we are never going to stop it, but good people standing by isn't the answer either.

danceyourselfdizzy1 · 08/03/2023 11:06

Brefugee · 08/03/2023 08:12

well i wouldn't exactly shout "oi, you mental idiot, pack it in"
I would say "that is racist, pack it in" - it isn't about the person, it is about the racism. And if he, or his lackys/supporters, came back with "he can't help it he has MH issues (you bigot)" I'd tell them to stop him, as his friends/employes, being in a position to be racist to people.

The more we let racism have a pass for any reason, the longer it takes to stop it. Frankly? we are never going to stop it, but good people standing by isn't the answer either.

The more we let racism have a pass for any reason, the longer it takes to stop it. Frankly? we are never going to stop it, but good people standing by isn't the answer either.

Agreed.