Page 3 | Is the UK really more racist than the USA?

Blip · 2022-12-07T14:36:07+00:00

I always thought that the USA was way more racist than the UK but recently have heard a lot on the news that the USA generally believes the UK is a lot more racist than the USA. Is there any kind of consensus on this?

HamBone · 14/02/2023 21:17

I was born in the UK and now live in the US ( East Coast). My impression is that there’s been a huge cultural shift in the US over the last 20 years.

Being openly racist isn’t socially acceptable in most communities now- there’ll always be areas where it’s more prevalent, but these beliefs don’t have the upper hand anymore.

i have teenagers and my impression is that ethnicity isn't holding Gen. Z back in the way it did their parents and certainly their grandparents. Perhaps I’m being overly optimistic, but I can only share my impression.

MrWhippersnapper · 14/02/2023 21:17

WeepingSomnambulist · 07/12/2022 15:30

There was an interested story from WW2. I'll try and find it.
American soldiers station in a town in England, they had a platoon of black soldiers with them. The black soldiers said they couldnt believe the treatment they got here. They were very much 2nd class citizens in the US, and the white american soldiers treated them like dirt. When they got here, there was no segregation and they were welcome in the pubs and cafes and the locals didnt bat an eye lid at them.
The white American soldiers were furious about having to share with the black soldiers so demanded that the town racially segregated. The town put up saying "Locals and Blacks only" and wouldnt deal with the white soldiers.

There ended up being an actual shoot out in the town, between the black soldiers and white soldiers throughout the town. The locals said it was very much the white guys who started it, but official reports in the US army (I think) blamed the black soldiers.

Bamber Bridge, Preston, the pub is The hob Inn, it’s still there

pigsinoodies · 14/02/2023 22:23

I stumbled across this picture of a 1970s National Front poster recently. 45 years later it seems to describe the attitude of the current government. That's 1970s NF policies from our current elected government.

Is the UK really more racist than the USA?

NotMyDayJob · 14/02/2023 23:08

I've spent time in the US, but the two (unrelated) most openly racist people I've ever met were Australian, one was openly talking about people of Greek heritage as w*gsthe most awful things about Aboriginal Australians. To be honest it wasn't what they said, it was how they said it, absolutely vitriolic.

I don't know if Australians are more racist than Americans, but mostly I think it is white people and we are everywhere.

NotMyDayJob · 14/02/2023 23:09

Fgs... and the other said the most awful things...

Hope551 · 14/02/2023 23:56

Tbh I think racism is pretty much in every country to some degree, anywhere where a race is a minority against a majority it will be like a school playground, as soon as someone stands out they are a target. Also USA is HUGE. Your bound to have more where you have double the people, identities and backgrounds.

I just think racists are dumb, like who can actually hate someone because of how they look when born. It's so shallow and skin deep. It's like hating a person for simply having blue eyes or being born. It's so illogical.

I think everyone should treat racists like dumbasses and anyone who experiences just know you are automatically 10x more intelligent then someone whose only beef is your skin. It's insane.

I do find though uk and USA have different social styles. Brits are usually reserved in demeanour and the Americans I've met a lot more expressive, so perhaps that's why racism comes out differently? Like brits more snide subtle digs and the American will just say it if they think it? Idk not had much worldly experience, but on forums it comes across like that

FuckNuggets · 15/02/2023 10:46

HeddaGarbled · 14/02/2023 20:31

My, purely observational, opinion, is that in the US, people of colour are able to achieve high ranking positions (e.g. judges) in a way that is very difficult in the U.K., but in the U.K. people of colour are less likely to be killed by racist police officers, home-owners etc.

So the U.S look at our lack of diversity in positions of power and rightly identify that as racist, and we look at the lack of protection for “Black lives” in the U.S and rightly identify that as racist.

I'm not so sure that's true considering we have an PM of Asian descent and no one's batted an eyelid.

HamBone · 15/02/2023 16:18

….mostly I think it is white people and we are everywhere.

@NotMyDayJob DH’s white cousin was engaged to a Japanese man and experienced racism in Japan to the extent that she broke off the engagement.

Sadly, many ethnicities are guilty of it-white people certainly are.

PermanentTemporary · 15/02/2023 18:13

We have a PM of Asian descent who is in post because his own political party preferred the only white candidate to him. In particular, they voted for Liz Truss, of all people, rather than Sunak.

But yes it's fair to say that things are changing in the UK.

altmember · 07/03/2023 02:31

Blip · 07/12/2022 14:49

I remember in the 1970s my American aunt and uncle visiting - most towns at the time had separate areas where white and black people lived and they were up in arms about a black family moving into their white area of town.
I was only very young at the time and found it so strange and shocking that it has stayed with me.

Quite a lot of places are still like that over there. Sure you go East or West coast and things are probably relatively 'civilised', but venture inland and it can be very very different.

I spent a short while working in the mid south area (Tennessee) a few years back. There were very clearly black and white neighbourhoods. And we were warned not to get out of the car in the wrong neighbourhood. The factory we were doing our work in was absolutely eye opening - all the managers were white, and almost all the manual workers were black. The working conditions for the manual workers were pretty poor - operating antique machinery that would give your average H&S person a heart attack. All this was totally normal to them, it was just there and very obviously ingrained institutional racism. It's like they were still in the 1950's USA. Can't imagine the UK has ever had quite such widespread and institutional racism?

Socrateswasrightaboutvoting · 07/03/2023 02:49

olivehater · 14/02/2023 20:36

I would suspect that Americans suddenly think the UK is more racist because of the Meghan Markle
thing. As she keeps bleating on about it

The UK was racist before Meghan and is still racist after her.

Socrateswasrightaboutvoting · 07/03/2023 02:51

PermanentTemporary · 15/02/2023 18:13

We have a PM of Asian descent who is in post because his own political party preferred the only white candidate to him. In particular, they voted for Liz Truss, of all people, rather than Sunak.

But yes it's fair to say that things are changing in the UK.

This

ChiefPearlClutcher · 07/03/2023 03:12

I think the US is more racist than the UK, but as pp said it is not acceptable to be openly racist.

The worst unabashed, open racism I have seen towards black people was from Chinese people to black people in Africa, (and China is coming for Africa in a way that no European coloniser ever did) and in Japan. I think other Asian nations really struggle with racism in Japan. Sorry OP I know this isn’t really what you asked.

MrsMikeDrop · 07/03/2023 03:30

It's probably more passive in the UK which in some ways is worse

Morestrangethings · 07/03/2023 03:35

barneshome · 07/12/2022 15:34

I advise you to stop watching the BBC or reading the Guardian

What would you recommend instead?

Nicecow · 07/03/2023 04:07

ChiefPearlClutcher · 07/03/2023 03:12

I think the US is more racist than the UK, but as pp said it is not acceptable to be openly racist.

The worst unabashed, open racism I have seen towards black people was from Chinese people to black people in Africa, (and China is coming for Africa in a way that no European coloniser ever did) and in Japan. I think other Asian nations really struggle with racism in Japan. Sorry OP I know this isn’t really what you asked.

China is coming for Africa in a way that no European coloniser ever did

Do you even know any history? European colonialists decimated the countries they colonised, the people still feel the effects now. What an ignorant statement 🙄

ChiefPearlClutcher · 07/03/2023 04:14

Precisely Nicecow. It is happening in front of our eyes and no one is doing a thing about it. Go and do a bit of research if you dare and relieve your own ignorance. I can give you anecdotal experience but a) I don’t think you’ll believe me and b) I can’t be bothered to type it out.

Morestrangethings · 07/03/2023 04:38

ChiefPearlClutcher · 07/03/2023 03:12

I think the US is more racist than the UK, but as pp said it is not acceptable to be openly racist.

The worst unabashed, open racism I have seen towards black people was from Chinese people to black people in Africa, (and China is coming for Africa in a way that no European coloniser ever did) and in Japan. I think other Asian nations really struggle with racism in Japan. Sorry OP I know this isn’t really what you asked.

I’m trying to understand what you mean? Are you saying that British colonialism and all the problems and horrors that resulted, was nowhere as bad as what China has not done? You compare what actually happened to something you fear happening?

knitnerd90 · 07/03/2023 04:43

I'm British living in the USA and I don't think it's easy to compare. I read things upthread like "the US is the most racist nation in history" and... well, it's rather more complicated than that.

Racism in the USA is easier to notice because it's in your face. I think that a lot of British people are isolated from the consequences of centuries of British racism because it was carried out elsewhere. Let's not forget who settled America, killed the natives, and set up slavery. There's often a very self-congratulatory aspect to the UK, of "well, we ended the empire and now it's all right!" But we don't see the mess we left behind. Not just in America, in Africa, in India, in the Caribbean. There's a lot we don't learn about: like the UK imported poor Indians on indentures to work on sugar plantations in Fiji and Trinidad and they were in near-slavery conditions. They couldn't afford to return when their indentures were up.

In the UK today, we have immigrants, but it's not the same as what happened in America--and since some of that blood is on our own hands, it doesn't do to be smug.

Open racism in the USA varies quite dramatically depending on location and ethnicity, by the way. Worth noting that racism towards Indigenous people is quite serious in all the ex-colonies though NZ is making a very conscious effort towards changing that. Australia was shocking to me in that respect.

Nicecow · 07/03/2023 04:55

ChiefPearlClutcher · 07/03/2023 04:14

Precisely Nicecow. It is happening in front of our eyes and no one is doing a thing about it. Go and do a bit of research if you dare and relieve your own ignorance. I can give you anecdotal experience but a) I don’t think you’ll believe me and b) I can’t be bothered to type it out.

Well I assume you know past colonisers were happy to murder, rape and pillage, up until not very long ago.

Enlighten us with your information? I'm happy to not be ignorant myself on this matter

SzeliSecond · 07/03/2023 05:03

Of all the war stories my Gran told, I never heard of the battle of Bamber Bridge - where she is from. Sadly she has passed now so I can't ask her about it but I do know they were given stick in the 70s for having non white friends. Thank you for sharing.

Imo the UK and US aren't comparable, it's different. My sister lived in one of the Southern States and commented a lot on the racism, but it was very overt.

There is a lot of racism where she lives now but it is a lot more subtle and she doesn't notice it the same but it's still there and still very damaging

Busybutbored · 07/03/2023 05:13

Does it really matter? Racism is evil regardless. I feel this is a very weird thread tbh!! Can a country really be better than another because they might be slightly less racist?

Bonkersworknonsense · 07/03/2023 05:13

I’m watching the after show of the Chris Rock standup and the woman comedian (who was born in Nigeria, but sounds very American so presumably raised in America) said that the British Royal Family invented slavery, racism, and colonialism.

And I was like “no they did not”. People have, apparently, no idea of history. I know I could go around telling friends and family that there was racism, slavery, and colonialism a loooooong time before Britain was a nation state. But people don’t know history and somehow the idea that Britain is the root of all evil has taken hold. The Egyptians had slaves, the ancient Greeks, indigenous North Americans had slaves, Arabs. Romans did colonialism. Racism predates the Royal Family.

All these things manifest differently though. I think it’s probably worse in America, more entrenched, dirtier history etc.

JaninaDuszejko · 07/03/2023 06:21

HeddaGarbled · 14/02/2023 20:31

My, purely observational, opinion, is that in the US, people of colour are able to achieve high ranking positions (e.g. judges) in a way that is very difficult in the U.K., but in the U.K. people of colour are less likely to be killed by racist police officers, home-owners etc.

So the U.S look at our lack of diversity in positions of power and rightly identify that as racist, and we look at the lack of protection for “Black lives” in the U.S and rightly identify that as racist.

Rishi Sunak? Sajid Javid? Priti Patel? Nadhim Zahawi?

I think Americans forget the UK has a much smaller black population than the US and therefore have fewer black people in positions of power. But we do have plenty of people of asian ethnicity throughout all levels of society because they are our largest ethnic population.

eish · 07/03/2023 06:29

The problem is that there is racism everywhere, just because there might be less doesn't make it OK. I can't say to my friend when she receives abuse, oh well, cheer up, in X country it would be far worse.

It makes me so angry that people are still receiving abuse for who they are. And we claim to be civilised.