Is the UK really more racist than the USA?

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I always thought that the USA was way more racist than the UK but recently have heard a lot on the news that the USA generally believes the UK is a lot more racist than the USA.

Is there any kind of consensus on this?

I have studied in Britain and spent long stretches here. I live in America in a Democrat stronghold and have done so for years. I am also not white.
They are differently racist. In my city/state/region of the US I haven’t faced racism in YEARS. It’s very liberal. My kids learn about race right from kindergarten. It’s talked about a lot post BLM. But the US has a long history of deep seated racism and if I was a black woman who worked in the service industry my experience of my own city would be different than that of a brown woman with a PhD. My husband is a primary care physician who works largely amongst unhoused folks and their experience of everyday racism in our lovely liberal corner of the US is next level.

The racism in the UK was a lot more subtle and when we spent some time in the UK I was amazed how little kids learn about this stuff in school and then in a very sanitised manner. I remember during the BLM stuff one of my white middle class British friends on a WhatsApp group saying that they she was tired of being told what else she was doing wrong…
Also the British are painfully shy about talking about race. But imply it all the time.

My guess is that having not talked about it and then having to confront it many took all the BLM stuff ‘personally.’ People don’t think that institutions or systems are racist in the UK…

I think people tend to think their country is more progressive than others. So it doesn’t surprise me that the USA would think we’re worse. I imagine the French also think the USA and UK are more racist than them. I don’t think it’s specific to one country.

A Town Like Alice was published in the 1940s or 50s. I wouldn't take it as a contemporary account of race relations in Australia.

I can't think of a country where there is no racism. I really can't. Each country displays it in different ways and has massively different history, economy and migration patterns.

@Nicecow - @ChiefPearlClutcher has a point. China is robbing Africa and it's people blind. I'm implore you to research the interest rates and terms of the "loans" and "investment" China is making in African countries. Also, look at the working conditions of some of the factories. There are numerous records of (alleged) abuse (mental, physical and sexual) by Chinese managers .

@Bonkersworknonsense the British did invent chattel slavery. This is not compatible to the servitude had in Egypt, other African nations or in the Middle East. At the very least the scale of the operation meant that even if you won't agree that the British invented slavery you'll at least admit they made it the biggest beast - no other nation has been able to take the helm and evolve a concept the way the British did with slavery.

@Allthegoodnamesarechosen the U.K. did have a colour bar- the slogan "no blacks, no dogs no Irish" shows that we did

Finally, I'm black and I'm British but using my lived experience and speaking to family members in the US and Australia even I'd definitely pick their racism over British racism because at least over there you know where you stand. You might feel scared or angry in the moment but provided you can walk away you'll know where not to go again (be that employment , healthcare or housing etc). In the U.K. your spirit will tell you what you've experienced is racism but it's so incidius over here that you'll struggle with the words to explain how you've been treated then will be gaslighted into saying your feelings aren't valid/uou misunderstood/the individual wasn't racist but was "unconsciously bias" etc.

France is in a particular category of its own since it rejects the idea of multiculturalism and does not even collect statistics on race.

Britain didn't invent slavery, but yes, it had a massive role in introducing chattel slavery. The British also really invented settler colonialism as we knew it today, rather than simple territorial conquest.

I'm not sure I'd want to try to decide who "invented" these things. The UK made major advances in the field, and isn't that really enough?

UK is far more integrated and generally laid back about race than the US. That said we do have issues with racism, particularly where inequality is baked into systems and structures, and it is an ongoing challenge for many people, and particularly for Gypsy, Roma, traveller families. But I think on the whole we are more comfortable talking about it, generally more open minded. Thankfully!

At least I do think things are sloooowly changing here.

Do you get mixed race couples in adverts in the US like you do here? Certainly NEVER did 15 years ago when I lived there.

And BLM - isn't it about US police shooting black people? Racism in policing needs to stop but our police aren't even armed.

In the U.K. your spirit will tell you what you've experienced is racism but it's so incidius over here that you'll struggle with the words to explain how you've been treated then will be gaslighted into saying your feelings aren't valid/uou misunderstood/the individual wasn't racist but was "unconsciously bias" etc.

I think this is what the Yorkshire cricket club is dealing with now. So things are changing - slowly.

I sound weird but as a white person I don’t think I could call out a black person , Kanye, for being racist/ antisemitic. I think it’d sound racist in a black people do it too all lives matter sort of way. Obviously his comments are deplorable but I’d hope he’d be called out by those he’s offending and other black people.

The US also believes London is 5 minutes away from Edinburgh...

I'm black, and there are some places in the US that I would actually be quite scared to go. I can't think of anywhere in the UK where I would feel like that. I think that both countries have issues with racism but it is far more extreme in many places in the US.

Yes, I dont' think you can compare a gun-toting country with a largely unarmed country. Knowing the other person might be armed has a big effect on your behaviour.

I sound weird but as a white person I don’t think I could call out a black person , Kanye, for being racist/ antisemitic.

@Badbudgeter And therein lies the problem. Yes, you do sound weird and I honestly have no words for what you've just said.

I think it is different. The US and UK have very different histories, different legal frameworks, different cultures.
What I do think is both countries have significant problems with racism still and I'm tired of people minimising the experiences of those on the receiving end.

came here to say pretty much this

Racism exists in every country in this world.

Also the British are painfully shy about talking about race. But imply it all the time.

i think this is an interesting observation and i wonder if it is because Britain is still so painfully divided along class lines and, for example the pp who posted this, as a woman of colour with a PhD is so very difficult to pigeonhole into a class.

As for calling out Kanye as a white woman? sure, i would. If i saw him make an anti-semitec (appalling that i simply cannot spell that) comment? I'd call him for that for sure. Misogynistic comments? absolutely. Homophobia? for sure

The racism in the US is much more overt - I’ve heard things there that had me absolutely aghast (and I was also told not to intervene as we were in an open carry state). But racism is much deeper and broader than what’s immediately obvious on the surface, and I think it’s really difficult as a white person to understand the impact of what we can’t see so easily. And the impact won’t be the same for everyone - we’re a US/UK family, with a number of American friends in the UK, and I’ve heard different opinions from black friends who have moved from the US as to whether they find racism worse here or there. All that is why I think trying to compare whether one country is “more” racist than another is somewhat foolish and potentially dangerous - let’s look inward to address our problems not outward to compare (and potentially minimise) them.

i watched the Chris Rock comedy special on Netflix last night after another mumsnetter poster recommended it. He mentioned advertising. That every couple you see in an ad now is mixed race.

So things must have have changed since you lived there.

(and I was also told not to intervene as we were in an open carry state).

this is the 2nd or third time i've seen this comment. Why does it make a difference if they are open carry or have their Glock in a handbag? Or is there something about Open Carry states that I'm missing.

sorry to sidetrack.

@bakalava @Badbudgeter As was pointed out to me by another mumsnetter, Kanye is seriously mentally ill and it’s quite well known he’s is. She raised the point that calling him may not be fair. I took that on board and said no more. He’s said a lot of racist things about Jews & Black people and he’s spoken terribly about his ex wife Kim. But is it fair to call out someone that is mentally unwell.

Yeah that's definitely a weird thing to say. I'm black and I've plenty of white friends who are quite happy to call Kanye West a racist idiot, because... he is.

But racism is much deeper and broader than what’s immediately obvious on the surface, and I think it’s really difficult as a white person to understand the impact of what we can’t see so easily.

@SettingPrecedents

I absolutely agree with this. And this is where we need to listen to, and hear, what people of other races have to say about racism.

But is it fair to call out someone that is mentally unwell.

yes. If they are saying shitty things they should be told. We don't know how their MH works, maybe they do that because they have some kind of racist tourettes? (is that a thing?) or just because they are a racist.

Should Jewish people, black people, or whoever the targets are, put up with racist shit being thrown at them because #BeKind? Kanye has enough money to have a minder / MH nurse with him at all times. His friends should encourage that.

yet have never been out of their country ...