Steve Biddulph discusses the results of a childcare "experiment" from Canada.

[Astrophe]

here, in the Sydney Morning Herald

Problem is that all the legislation in the world will not make it right for everybody. There are as many 'ideal' solutions as there are families.

Some legislation could help make the choices real choices though.

Plus also a cultural attitude change towards men undertaking childcare. I wish "parental care" wasn't always interpreted as "SAHM". We need more SAHDs (full or part-time).

Yes, I very specifically didn't say "choice" because I know how infuriating it is to be told you have a choice, when it's not one!

Must say anecdotally round here often a good third of carers at the toddler/singing groups I go to are dads. Overheard 2 having an intense debate about reusables. Was great.

True, but life isn't great at following cultural ideals, I so wish it was. DH and I thought that he would be SAHD as I earned so much more than him at the time, and it just seemed logical. When ML came to an end he admitted that, while he loves DS to bits, he'd sooner poke needles in his eyeballs than stay at home full time, whereas I was feeling sad about going back to work. This went against all of my feminist principles and I feel bad admitting that this is how we felt, such an outdated stereotype, but there it is... I went back out of financial necessity. Luckily for me DH's career seems to be taking off so I can now go PT and spend more time with DS. But I wouldn't want to be FT SAHM either, my work is part of my identity that I'd miss terribly if I had to give it up completely. Anyway, must biff off and pick up my aggressive, anxious, miserable little boy from the chainsmoking teenagers place

Same with my dh. Also I was very pleased not to have to fight him to be sah.

Do you know, I've never met a SAH dad in RL. (Except one, whose wife died in labour and is taking his DD's first year off work)

I agree with you drama, but it is ingrained. I am as guilty of thinking 'maternal' instead of 'parental' and I should know better.

And yes some legislation would help, but I was just thinking there are no right answers here and threads like this will continue to crop up at least once as week on MN no matter what happens. In a sense the research is pointless - it doesn't matter what is best and what is not, if people don't have the chance to chose because legislation giving us options isn't in place to make choice possible (iyswim).

Hunker, you are right, it isn't about choices for most of us. I made a choice to be a SAHM but the reality is that if I had chosen to go back to work I would have been working for peanuts after childcare costs and I have yet to find a job that is worth doing for next to nothing. I am sure I would have been very resentful about it too!

Niecie, I do agree there's no single right answer. I think research is useful though.

MP-I know 4 SAHD's and they are veery happy lokkinhg after their dc. DP said the other day he would love to do it too

i know dh would do it like a shot and will when i get my business off the ground....

LOL at SB being just "the messenger" and reporting studies. There is a difference between reporting that children under 2 experience more stress in a nursery environment than at home and linking it to mental health problems in later life.

I didn't say he was just the messenger, but the tendency for opponents to personalise these issues is striking, to the extent that the discussion becomes almost entirely about Biddulph and not about the research

There is no research which says the mental health problems amongst youngsters in the UK today is mostly found in children who attaneded nursery, is there?

but the article was about a large scale study showing some pretty striking negative results on children and families, rather than long term mental issues. and the response was (in general) to criticise Biddulph rather than engage with the study.
as far as the longer term impact is concerned, as a mental health professional he is, I would say, entitled to extrapolate from the current research findings and give his opinion, which might in turn encourage that research to be done, notwithstanding the complications and difficulties of a longer term study.

I don't really see your point. Of course SB is entitled to express whatever opinion he likes and write as many books he likes. I have a big problem with how this is reported in the media. I seem to remember Penelope Leech had a problem with how the study she was (and I believe still is) involved in was reported in the media too.
I also think SB is very wrong in linking fulltime nursery care to mental health problems because I think social and mental problems are mostly caused by the huge social differences between people in this country. Unemployment, lack of education, deprivation and child poverty. So many children sadly lack real opportunities in life. Children in fulltime nursery are mainly children of well-off professional educated resourceful parents. They are not the children ending up hanging on street-corners, but most are rather priviledged. They also tend to be children from two-parent families, simply because you need two fairly good incomes to be able to pay for a nursery in the first place. Focusing on "mothers going out to work" is a complete red herring and will do nothign to sort out social differences in this country.

Nobody is saying that nursery care is the cause of mental health issue is later life, there are dozens of different causes. It is a factor and since nursery care is the particular factor under discussion it would be fair to consider its implications.

And I don't think MC children are immune from that mental health issues either. For example, you get plenty of MC children binge drinking with its resulting problems - just look at the student union bars on a Friday night.

SB didn't do this research by himself, nor is he the only to reach the conclusions that he has come to. However, because he has written pop. psychology parenting books and he is a 'name', it isn't surprising that the papers want to him to write for them too. I doubt if some unknown researcher from Oxbridge had written this article that he or she would have had the personal attacks that SB has had.

Anyway, I think you are oversimplifing SB's message.

Sorry, should be 'nor is he the only one to reach.....'

Actually FM mental illness happens to everyone across the board, is usually hereditry and is just another illness such as cancer or heart disease so children with professional parents are not immune

"Children in fulltime nursery are mainly children of well-off professional educated resourceful parents. They are not the children ending up hanging on street-corners, but most are rather priviledged. They also tend to be children from two-parent families, simply because you need two fairly good incomes to be able to pay for a nursery in the first place."

are you saying that children from these kind of families won't end up with mental health problems?
that's right because the middle classes have no alcohol abuse problems
or drug addiction
or eating disorders
no depression
no middle class people are violent or aggressive to their families
or commit suicide

This prevalent philosophy that MC values are the ideal for everyone is getting ridiculous.
Nobody has a perfect life, even if they own a big house and earn lots of money doesn't mean they're happier than say, an artisan on a beach in Mexico

Sue Gerhardt, psychotherapist and author of Why Love Matters, has written about this too. Why Love Matters is a really interesting book which doesn't focus on childcare in particular, it's more about the development of the brain and emotions, but she mentions it in this article

Actually I think I even take issue with the idea that nurseries are mainly inhabited by the MC - surely MC parents are the ones who are more likely to use a nanny or an au pair, options almost never used by the WC families.

Surely it depends on the nursery and the area it is in - there are plenty of nurseries in WC areas (how I hate these class divides - who decides anyway) where a MC professional would never set foot.

Sorry by this I mean mental health issues. She says the brain has a kind of "emotional thermostat" which gets set by early experiences, and can make a person more or less prone to stress, anxiety, depression etc. Obviously other factors will also influence whether a person gets depressed or whatever, but the way their brain develops is going to play a part.

Niecie, do you know the cost of nurseries? I pay £1000 a month for one child.

I am not saying middle class people cannot have problems. But I think most of the social problems, lack of education, teenage pregnancies etc etc we see today is from what I would call the "under class" from disadvantaged families. Not necessarily because the parents are not loving parents, but because their situation is often so hopeless and they ar eall lumped together or horrible council estates (I have seen this on The Bill !)