Steve Biddulph discusses the results of a childcare "experiment" from Canada.

[Astrophe]

here, in the Sydney Morning Herald

MT breezes in and straight back out again - testing herself...

yes fairy, that's the point.
it is continuity of care and one to one ratios that is the issue (in the research).
the most expensive nursery cannot guarantee those.

Oh dear, Fairymum. You seem to be lacking in the one thing that money just can't buy.

I wish you luck with your choices. Some of us (thankfully), do not have the money to ulcerate ourselves making them.

Fairymum- I suppose the part of the population that don't qualify for sure start and can't afford the fees that you are so proud of paying stay at home at look after their children-just as Biddulph thinks they should

This qualifying for Sure Start must be a London thing.

My Sure Start nursery didn't ask me for any financial details at all. For all they know, I could be a millionaire.

I live in quite an affluent village with no 'under-privileged' areas. It's just a nursery, a very good nursery. I had no idea that the likes of FM had such a low opinion.

Not that I give a shoite.

Desiderata, sounds to me like you are talking about the state run nurseries all 3+ are entitled to for free a certain number of hours per week. These are not fulltime nurseries. the state does not run fulltime nurseries for free except in a few areas and your affluent somerset village will not be one of them. I am talking about fulltime nurseries and unless you qualify in a sure start area, your fee is £1000+ a month for any private nursery. Its not something you are proud to pay. Its a cost you wish was a heck of a lot smaller and which prevent many women from going out to work because their costs will exceed their salary..

Yes, I know. My ds qualified for 12.5 hours FREE after his third birthday. All children do.

But the nursery charges £48.00 per day, and it is open to all. So, a parent who wishes to put their child in full time nursery would be looking at an approximation of £1000 per month.

For many reasons, I would rather eat mouldy bagels then go down such a road.

the funny thing i've noticed about nurseries is the charges are very similar but the standard of care widely variable. we don't seem to have these 'super nurseries' near us. what are the ace qualifications you get for your money then? fairymum, it's a shame you can't afford a nanny, that is a higher quality of care you know (sorry ,that bit is tongue in cheek)

I didn't know the government ran fulltime sure start nurseries and charged £48 a day in somerset. Sounds more like you have a sure start place in a private nursery.

Desiderata, this is exactly my point. You don't seem to care about how expensive the nursery is, because you don't want a fulltime place anyway. Well, great for you, but what about people who need it? this is exactly the point I am making about SB's research. Always quoted by people who don't like nurseries and don't want them to become more affordable.

fairy, the cost of nurseries is entirely beside the point.
I am not at all sure what you mean by "Biddulph's research" because as far as I know he has never carried out any research.

Everyone to have a WIFE????

are there enough angelic geniuses of sheer brilliance and beauty for everyone to have one?

Babysitters in this area charge £6 -7 per hour.

Full-time care at our nursery is £4 per hour and a lot of families get tax credits for childcare plus nursery grant after 3 years old.

Is it that expensive?

is it that expensive? are you kdding me? £1000 a month? I paid £2000 a month once because I had 2 children in nursery. In sweden my friends pay £300 a month......

Why are you so concerned with the cost of nursery care? Why not use another option if cost is the issue? I presumed you had made your choice (i.e. to work and use a nursery) because it was the best thing for you and your family. Its not a case of not wanting nurseries to become more affordable... I'd like food to become more affordable... Great for you that you have money to spend £1000 on a nursery. Perhaps if you are fed up of paying that you could

1. Get a job that pays more
2. Choose a less expensive childcare option
3. Come to an arrangement that does not involve paid-for childcare
4. Move to a different area
5. Stop using full-time childcare

harpsi. I agree. I've read his 'tearstained child alone in corner' stuff. Which, IIRC, was witnessed in a nursery in the USA.

Also think 'Raising Boys' is full of sweeping generalisations. And I've got 4 boys.

Sweden's is paid for by taxes, isn't it?

I don't think private nurseries exist there.

Your Swedish friend is payin more than £300 per month because he/she is paying something like 60% in taxes to fund state services.

Happynappies, my childcare costs are annoying, but I am comfortably off and can afford to pay them. I am not just thinking of myself. Is that a difficult concept for you? There are lots of families who have to work, but who really struggle to pay for childcare and there are lots of women who would like to go out and work but can't afford the childcare.

Yes Bubble99 that is true and actually as a high income earner I would be happy to pay more in tax for daycare to be cheaper for everyone. That way if you don't earn much, you pay less tax and you can still afford a nursery place if you like one. This is how the swedish system works. Everyone has access and pay proportionally to their income. Great I think.

Interestingly, well to me at least, most Scandinavians (the lands of high taxation) don't mind the high tax rate because they are getting such good state provision.

I suspect in the UK we would end up with higher taxes and the same crappy provision.

bubble, we wouldn't have higher taxes because people in this country want better services but always vote for tax cuts.

The amount of taxpayers money that is wasted in the UK via the Civil Service is beyond belief.

We receive endless 'monitoring' forms and 'consultation' documents from our Local Authority. Most seem designed to justify the salary of those devising/sending them.

Also, anything that could be covered by a phone call or email seems to require a bod coming to us for a 'meeting.'

Soph, that is true.

Oh, I have to parp this thread. I really do.

The amount of money wasted by our local Early Years department should be calculated and added to the nursery grants for parents, IMO