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James Bulger's mother demands right to find freed killers

1027 replies

suzywong · 28/11/2004 08:01

as reported in the \link{http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/story_pages/news/news1.shtml\news of the world.

Should she have the right?

Discuss

OP posts:
Awenamanger · 01/12/2004 17:04

spacedonkey

hercyulelog · 01/12/2004 17:05

but that is controlling our emotions ie not allowing them to dictate our actions rather than taking responsibility for them.

agy · 01/12/2004 17:06

I think the parents of these boys are massively to blame. We are all responible for the actions of our
children. Hence the guilt we feel when they do wrong. Yes, it was the fault of society as a whole but it falls primarily upon the parents.

Awenamanger · 01/12/2004 17:07

bad punctations..

No, please don't stop

or

No please don't, stop

spacedonkey · 01/12/2004 17:13

I hope Michael Howard never gets into power. What an awful man he is.

Uwila · 01/12/2004 17:34

Why is Michael Howard a bad man?

spacedonkey · 01/12/2004 17:35

I was specifically referring to his "less understanding, more condemnation" statement.

midnightmass · 01/12/2004 17:37

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

Gobbledigoose · 01/12/2004 17:38

Yes but it's nearly at 1000 posts!! It has to keep going till then.

Just thought I'd help it along a little. Not that it needs it!

spacedonkey · 01/12/2004 17:39

Yes, it is. I think I've said all I have to say!

peskykids · 01/12/2004 21:14

Just one more post to nudge it further towards 1,000.

Tammy, you have hav emade me laugh (in a nice way) as you express your views. Although I hold the opposite ones to you I often express them just like you. (Only this is normally when I at the pub and holding court. I really like it that that's what it feels like here. Someone said it's refrshing, and I agree.) I don't think anyone's been particularly rude, and it's all been food for thought.

I just wish I could come up with a witty Christmas alias like evreyone else!

joashiningstar · 01/12/2004 21:21

agy - how can you say that we are responsible for the actions of our children.

My daughter grew up in a loving, stable family environment. She was beautiful, intelligent and very streetwise. Always had a beautiful home and all the love and support she culd ever need. Now she lives with an absolute arsehole, in a dirty, smelly house and has effectively lost her son. He's with us, and knows her as 'mummy' but she is little more than a visiotr to him. In addition, she can never have another child as the SS will be waiting to take away any other baby that she gives birth to.

I'm not responsible for that - she is fully capable of making her own decisions and choices in life. The responsibility for what she has become, is hers not mine and DH's.

peskykids · 01/12/2004 21:28

Jo,

I do sympathise with you, but the parents were responsible for the children in this case. The kids were only 10.

Your daughter made her decisions as an educated adult. Why she made those choices may be unfathomable to you, but sadly, as a parent we will have to allow our children the space to make their own decisons (hark at me, mine are only 5 and 2 -I know nuffink!).

You did everything you could for your child, but she has made her choice as an adult. At least one of these children had little going for them, abused, neglected, educationally challenged... badly parented I'd say?

ocean · 02/12/2004 02:20

Should a parent be able to know where the murderer(s) of her child live? That was the original point, so my answer to that would be no.

Reason being, the temptation to exact retribution would be so strong, it would not do any good. I know if it was me, I would want to kill them myself, but would probably pay someone to do it, which I suppose would make me guilty of murder too.

But talk on here of why hasn't Denise Fergus "got over it" or "started to heal" have left me feeling saddened. Why should a mother be expected to get over the murder of her child, especially such a horrific one as this was? The fact that your child was crying out for you in his last moments and you were not there would haunt any normal person forever.

I see many bleating on about "they were only children". So? That gives them a valid excuse does it? If they had not carried out such a vicious attack, just hit him once too hard, or threw one thing at him that hit wrong killing him, then I could buy into the rehabilitation route.

But they did not do any such thing. They systematically battered and killed him, and possibly sexually assulted him too. Then, because they knew they had done wrong, they placed the body on train tracks to dispose of the evidence. Not the actions of dim children in my eyes.

The punishment should have been life in prison. No remand, no second chances. People who have worked with them have spoken out about how they feel they will kill again.

Bad childhood is no excuse. If it was, we would have children murdering children everyday. They were old enough to know that their actions were very wrong, so should pay for that accordingly. 8-yrs was not enough for what they did.

SantaandtheReindeer · 02/12/2004 03:00

Ocean, I don't know if anyone on this thread said that she should have "gotten over it". Obviously she will never get over it.

But I was one of the people who talked about her starting to heal (although I don't think I used those exact words).

She will never get over it and the hurt will always be there, but I wish for her sake that she would be able to start to learn to live with it. It doesn't sound as though that's the case.

I do know what I'm talking about here. I have never lost a child which must be the worst sort of pain, but I lost my husband in a horrifically brutal way. I will never get over it, never forget it and the pain will never go away. But 3 years later I am able (most days anyway) to go about my everyday life without being consumed with anger or hatred. I can find joy in the world, especially in my children (and she has other children does she not?). I can live my life despite the gaping hole in my heart.

That's what I mean by learning to live with it. It's the best that those of us who have had loved ones murdered can hope for.

Caligula · 02/12/2004 08:57

Quite right Santa. I don't think anyone would be so crass as to say that Denise Fergus should "get over it", or to imply any such thing. Learning to live with it isn't quite the same.

Blu · 02/12/2004 11:36

Uwila: MIchael Howard is a bad man because:
-he thinks that 'asylum seeking' is something that should happen according to quotas, his family came here to escape the nazis - under his system, britain might well have said 'sorry, quota full, gates were closed to migrants from the gas chambers, back you go'
-As Minister for Trade under Thatcher he was responsible for the original sales to super-arms to Iraq, specifically against the advice of the MoD. He (and other tories) have never taken any resposibility for this action's effect in the current situation

Could go on but have not got all morning!

ocean · 02/12/2004 11:55

Ocean, I don't know if anyone on this thread said that she should have "gotten over it". Obviously she will never get over it.

Maybe not the exact phrase, but the sentiments expressed in some posts does pretty much say that. I agree, she will never get over it, not should she be expected to.

Isn't saying she should seek closure a different way of saying "get over it"?

I wish for her sake that she would be able to start to learn to live with it.

I would think the fact she is alive proves she is living with it.

I am sorry to hear of your husbands murder, but I do not think losing a partner is the same as a child, a baby who you had not long ago nurtured and given birth too. That kind of loss is far more profound, I would imagine.

Uwila · 02/12/2004 11:56

Blu, Thanks for your input, but I was actually asking why he was bad in reference to the bulger case. As I have learned not to ask for general reviews of the Torries here on mumsnet.

stickynote · 02/12/2004 11:56

Please let's not get into a discussion about degrees of loss.

paolosgirl · 02/12/2004 11:57

Ocean, well said. We don't excuse children bullying, beating or hitting other children (see other threads) and yet for some reason, this appalling act of systematic, sustained violence and terror inflicted on an 18 month by 2 ten years olds, has been blamed on society, parents, lack of guidance - in fact, anything but the free will of the boys.
Can we all please remember an 18 month old baby died at their hands, and their hands alone.

SantaandtheReindeer · 02/12/2004 12:01

You're absolutely right Stickynote.

Ocean, I don't think you have any understanding of how it feels to lose a loved one (your child or otherwise) in a horrific way. (And good for you - it's not something I would wish on anyone.) In my opinion, being consumed with anger is not learning to live with it.

ocean · 02/12/2004 12:27

Actually I do know how it feels. But that is a personal issue and I do not want to get into a "degrees of loss" debate do I?!!

As for being consummed by anger, that would never go away, surely? Why should it? I had some horrific things happen in my past, but learnt to live with them admirably. But I still have a burning hatred of what I wnet thorough and always will. It is possible to move on and retain hatred.

For me, I can say with certainty that I would never, ever stop hating the murderer(s) of my child if it was me. As long as they took a breath I would hate them. To forgive them or understand them would be like saying what they did was ok because they had a valid excuse.

StuffTheMagicTurkey · 02/12/2004 12:31

I hope this is the 1000th post.

Everyone who has posted here feel very deeply about what happened to James Bulger, even if we all have different views about what should have happened in the aftermath.

RIP James

Blitzen · 02/12/2004 12:31

1001 - can we stop now, please?

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