I'd like to discuss the John Hogan case, but I dont want it to descend into a 'lynch' thread

[VVVQV]

It aint gonna happen, is it?

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KKM you know no one is saying it was OK for him to do this

Nor were his brothers doing the right thing when they both killed themselves.

But mental illness played such a part in these tragic events that the jury were convinced that he could not be held accountable.

And they heard the evidence.

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KKM that's known as a "cry for help". Hogan's brothers succeeded in killing themselves, which is totally different.

Actually Dittany I said

"she probably wants to tear him limb from limb, entirely understandable "

a term of phrase to indicate I empathise with her feelings too- I just wish peopple would stop painting him as evil & her as a saint, the rights & wrongs of their marriage are immaterial & none of our business. What happened was unutterably sad & he has been judged as being insane at the time he did it, by much more learned people than I . Whether he was jailed in greece for 25 years or in a psychiatric unit there or here it will not un-do the death of a little boy & the ruination of the families lives on both sides.

Quite Mellow!!

personal experiences are just that personal to each individual. you cannot measure anothers behaviour when Mentally ill against your own.

"Some of us don't believe that the act was caused by his mental illness but rather his anger and vengefulness when his wife said he was leaving him."

What makes you disbelieve the psychiatrist?

Thank you TellusMater- I'm geting sick of repeatimg myself-I do the cracked record routine at home enough!!

Yes Dittany but yet again you are quoting me out of context -I meant things aren't Black & white ie him evil &her saint- she has been admirably restrained during all this, probably because she KNOWS he was out of his mind when he did it. Several if her interviews have praised him as a father before then & that yes they were arguing but he suddenly got "this crazed look in his eye" etc etc.

But fine you believe what you want it's a free country, I just think it's so sad & even sadder is the public atitude to Mental Health esp as voiced on here.

Calm down Kerry

I would think the psychiatrist knows more about the case and mental illness than anybody on here. How can anybody think this man was not mentally ill?!

His actions were clearly not premediated - even his wife noticed a change in him moments before he threw himself out of the window. Premeditation would have been taking the children off and all of them taking an overdose, not turning around and making a run for the window.

I don't even see how he is trying to manipulate his wife - he didn't say 'change your mind or we're all out of the window', he just did it. He can't have expected to survive this either.

It is very sad all round and I hope that now it is over they can all begin to find some peace.

Dittany you can nit pick all you like but if the woman had MH issues then no I would react the same.

I can understand the accusations of evil if he had just thrown the children off the balcony but he didn't he went with them. That is not the action of somebody sane, unless you think sane people commit suicide like this.

No I don't think a woman in the same situation would be treated any differently either.

About 18 months ago a dear friend of ours went through a relationship break up, his partner moved out and took the children, there was a lot going on, and I am sure we only knew bits of it, however he was heartbroken at losing his children, hurt and angry how he was being treated by his Ex, this we know because he told us so, he went missing for 3 days and was found hanging.

He was angry at his other half but there was no way he would kill their children to hurt her, there was no way he would hurt his children as he loved them, He was unhappy, he hurt his self and he did it once.

Sane people do not kill their children, people intent on killing them self do it the first time.

It is sad for the whole hogan family, and the child's mother will have to live with her part in what happened (and to be fair no one knows what happened if she was seeing someone, going to leave etc.)
The sister will need support and counselling for a long time to come, and a little bot has had his life stolen from him.

Personally sane or not I think he should have gone to jail, but that just my personal view.

boy

I don't think he should ever be allowed to see his daughter again.

Mentally ill or not, I don't think that any child should be forced to face a man that tried to kill her.

KKM - see my post further down