Archie Battersbee thread 5

[henryhihat]

New thread...

I wonder if the ventilator was continued but the monitors removed and fluids, potassium, vasopressin and hydrocortisone discontinued, would that be a bit more acceptable to family. That way I expect the hypovolemia, hypotension and electrolyte derangement that would ensue would cause cardiac arrest fairly quickly but there wouldn't be the ventilator unplugging and extubation obvious "big moment" and they could check for cessation of heartbeat after a while then stop the ventilator after. I know it's a bit backwards but if it was likely to be as smooth as the usual procedure, that might be a reasonable compromise

The hospital letter published reads to me that this is exactly how they planned the withdrawal of treatment over time. The original letter for Monday that is. Things may have changed?

I agree. She’s thinking “now what can I do. I must do something”

Shes not thinking long term

I think once Archie has died the truth will come out and Hollie is going to regret this.

Exactly. She wants to be able to say this past four months wasn’t all in vain. Even though she managed to prolong it so long she’s had months more time with his body.

if he’s moved and dies on the way she can create accusations towards the hospital for having harmed him or not paid due care and attention. No wonder the hospital won’t risk it (nor should they: there is nothing about a transfer that would be sensible or best for Archie).

News just breaking that the family has lodged an appeal against the hospice ruling. The kindest thing now would be for Archie's body to simply give up on its own accord.

I assume we can complain to ofcom?

Public opinion will turn against her extremely swiftly and violently and she won’t know what’s hit her.

if she doesn’t fade from public attention completely, that is.

Although from what I can see, opinion has already changed. Every post I’ve seen has a couple of comments in her favour and the rest are appalled at what’s going on and what she’s doing. No doubt she’s surrounded by yes men and kicks out anyone who tries to speak sense.

Sadly that is exactly what most of us expected.

I can't imagine Hollie will ever get to a place of regretting things. She'll be angry for a very long time.

I don't think she'll be embarrassed about or regretful of my behaviour under such extreme circumstances.

I'm not excusing it, just thinking she's long past the point of feeling like she has anything to lose.

And future negative repercussions won't be seen (by her) as being because of her behaviour now, they'll feed in to the persecution and abandonment complex she has.

There's just no way out. She's totally trapped, cornered.

Thank you and yes, I agree with you about the staff. That's why I said imagine the pressure there under.

Just to clarify, I was talking about hypothetical irrational resentment, not resentment I feel now I feel extremely sorry for the parents of other children in PICU and was essentially saying I wouldn't be surprised if some of them feel resentful. How can they not, even if it's a primal irrational feeling and not a rational one? Having to see and hear the 'extra' attention and cognitive and emotional focus going to a child who has no hope of survival.

"Public opinion will turn against her extremely swiftly and violently and she won’t know what’s hit her.

if she doesn’t fade from public attention completely, that is."

I agree. I think public opinion has already turned against her.

I think it will be hard to come back from her basically saying she would rather he die without his parents there in the ambulance than in the hospital where they can be with him. As a mother I am struggling to understand that. I get she is desperate. But it's Archie that's important here.

The Victorian’s used to prop up their recently dead and put them in various poses for family photos and what is being plastered all over Facebook isn much different now.

Wasn't that at least partly about having a photo of someone who maybe you had no photographs of at all? So perhaps a better comparison would be with memory boxes rather than people oversharing on social media.

None of the other news sites are saying the appeal's been lodged, and if it was on the ITV page it's gone. Not to say they haven't appealed, but not confirmed.

I suspect that for Hollie it's not just about the win, it's about not giving up 'the fight' for what her child would want.

She may genuinely believe he would want to be transferred hospice.

The adrenaline of the battle may be keeping her going and she wants to know she 'fought' to the very end.

Even though rationally or logically her continued battle isn't what's best for Archie, she may be incapable of seeing it like it.

I would be astonished if his kidneys were functioning at all by now, so I doubt he'd produce any urine.

He's clearly evacuating fluids, according to his mother this morning.

Because, as professionals, the healthcare team are obligated to do what is in the patient’s best interests according to their training and experience. Legally obligated - as in, open to criminal prosecution, de-registration and litigation if they don’t. Morally obligated, because if you let this one go against your better judgement because ‘he’s already gone, what does it matter. It’ll help his mother’ it’s a slippery slope and you personally are making decisions an individual shouldn’t be making, and emotionally obligated because they have to go home and sleep at night and are (generally speaking) pretty awesome humans.

When people who hold life or death in their hands don’t follow the rules, you end up with Harold Shipman et al. Not in one go, of course. But once you’re over the line you’re on the way, aren’t you?

Agree.

I said a few days ago I wonder if she now feels she can't say "stop" to anymore treatment and agree to end the life support.

Because she's called those wanting to that executioners.

Must admit I thought that if permission to appeal to the Court of Appeal is refused, there is no right to go to the Supreme Court. However, last time around, they did get involve when the family said they wanted to go to the UN, and I never quite understood how. Any ideas, @prh47bridge?

It's probably fair to say that Archie would prefer the hospice to the hospital. I very much doubt, however, that he would prefer it if told that the chances of making it to the hospice are close to zero.

My sympathy for Holly is long gone, I can now only think she is a raging narcissist who doesn't care about her sons dignity, only whether she can win.

The staff must be feeling all kinds of emotions by now I really feel for them

I don't know if it's true but people on Twitter are claiming the family are preparing to sue the hospital and report the drs to the GMC. Disgusting actions if true.