Archie Battersbee - Thread 4

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Archie Battersbee - Thread 3 http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/inthee_news/4601962-archie-battersbee-thread-3

There's a thread on another forum (kiwi farms) that has all the information

It cannot be a luxury that only wealthy people can afford!

Only wealthy people can seek treatment outside the NHS, when the NHS is overburdened. Poor people are being disadvantaged by this situation. It's perfectly possible children who could be saved are dying, because of the fight to keep Archie longer.

Thanks sunflower.

there are many behaviour similarities with CG. I know some of the team who cared for him.

It may have been crassly put, but it’s a valid point. This is costing the taxpayer and the already overstretched NHS. And yes, it is possible that other children could die because of a dead child being kept on life support and that bed not being available and a seriously ill child having to be sent somewhere else for instance.

There is a potential danger here that if a child died because a bed at that hospital were not available, then the hospital could find themselves at the centre of another legal battle. If a parent is capable of suing to keep her child on life support, then a parent is capable of suing because their child has died due to a lack of that bed.

I’m not saying that it will happen, but it could.

Given this is now just about the CLC furthering their agenda and Archie’s interests have long since been forgotten, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to say that they should be charged for the cost of all this.

I’m not talking about the parents, but the over-funded, hideous vultures that are CLC.

The difference is that someone in a persistent vegetative state can breathe independently. They will need to have some form of tube feeding and carer to remove waste, care for the skin etc though.

Archie can’t breathe.

The only reason there are security guards outside is because of all the war talk she has been whipping up on social media. See a theme there?

Agree

There isnt a moral high ground here you're following along too just with more words.

Archie is brain-dead. He won’t be feeling any pain.

In some ways Hollie Dance reminds me of a woman who was the ante-natal ward when I was. She was generally quite demanding, and I had the impression that she went through life assuming the world revolved around her. She was utterly gobsmacked when it was brought home to her that the hospital regarded her baby's safety as more important than her comfort, with the result that they wouldn't induce labour or do a caesarian because she felt she'd had enough of being pregnant, nor would they prescribe anything that would harm the baby. When she was in labour she was furious essentially that they couldn't magic the whole thing away. That refusal to accept basic medical facts, or that someone else might have a more balanced picture of a child's best interests, is what is evident in Hollie's case.

Archie Battersbee: Who decides when life support ends? www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-62390504

sorry late to thread. (been lurking) can someone explain to me why disability is being used, he wasn't (as far as I know ) disabled when he had his accident. as far as I can make out he is brain dead now and being kept alive artificially,
so is that how they see disabled people?

Thanks to all those who answered my query about the Tony Bland case.

This case is desperately sad, but Archie's dignity needs to be preserved, and dragging this out doesn't allow for that. Well done to all the hospital staff who are doing their utmost.

So she's appealing to the court of human rights again today ffs. How much longer is this circus going to continue. When is enough enough? How can you think multiple UK courts, the UN and a good hospital and multiple Drs and nurses are all out to get your child for absolutely no reason at all?!

@Soontobe60 I meant that the process of keeping his body stimulated will be causing injuries that would cause anybody pain, not necessarily Archie in his current state, my point is I couldn’t inflict such injuries to my own child, whether they could feel it or not, morally that wouldn’t sit well with me so I could bide time.

I'm a disabled person although not a wheelchair user.

I know other disabled people who have experienced traumatic brain injuries or brain tumours resulting in restrictions in speech and movement for example

They are not corpses and to compare them to one, (which is what Archie now is), is disgusting.

It's grasping at straws. Coming up with any vaguely plausible sounding argument to buy more time.

Legally, he isn't dead. I know that in every way that is meaningful he is, but legally he is still alive. He certainly isn't able bodied. He is in fact profoundly disabled, to the point he needs intensive medical support to do just about everything from breathing to managing how concentrated his pee is.

The argument is 'My son is disabled. Look! The UK has an appalling record in how it treats disabled people. My son is just another casualty in this.' It has just enough truth in it to be superficially plausible, particularly if you haven't been following the case, and so don't realise just how devastating the damage has been.

She won’t stop until Archie’s body gives up (which is what she wants), or the courts ban anymore appeals and the hospital turn off the machines.

Theoretically yes, but does anyone know that for certain? My Aunt died several years ago whilst waiting for surgery to remove a blood clot on her brain. There were no intensive care beds available so surgery was postponed. My father, on the other hand, was successfully operated on for a Triple A even though the doctors told is there was only a 5% chance of success. There was an intensive care bed available at the point he was admitted into A+E.
Access to such services via the NHS is almost a lottery depending on many many circumstances. It’s not just limited to bed availability - is the best most experienced surgeon available or have they gone on holiday? Do the ICU / HDU wards have a full complement of well qualified nursing staff on duty every day? Do all the professionals have enough time to carefully assess the patients? Does the hospital have the latest technology available?
Many factors determine whether an outcome is successful or not. What we DO need though, is an NHS that isn’t just there to ‘save’ people, but one that also provides access to a dignified death. This child shouldn’t be in hospital, bed blocking. He should be in an end of life facility such as a hospice that also has provision to support someone on a ventilator. As far as I know, that doesn’t exist in this country.

If anyone started a collection for the staff on the ward, I would contribute, because I think they must be getting traumatized by this situation. Just to acknowledge them, really.

thank you, so glad its not me. I wondered if I was taking it wrong as my youngest is severely disabled and has friend who have suffered brain injuries resulting is severe disability they are all very much alive.

On the contrary I think it is helpful to have a greater understanding of the larger picture as a lot of people are utterly incredulous at what they are witnessing but would understand it is not really anything unusual for this particular parent as it is part of a long running pattern of behaviour to garner such attention for herself and I think we are all agreed little of this seems to be about Archie anymore. Nobody with the best interests of the child would believe this latest hopeless appeal is to keep him in front of the cameras. I'm afraid the back story does present a very different perspective of what we are seeing. It may not that it changes anything but it does explain an awful lot.

Theoretically I agree with you. But I’ve never been in that situation. I’d hope that were I to find myself in his mother’s shoes I’d have the strength to let my child go, but I can’t say that with absolute certainty.
I’m a very pragmatic person - I don’t believe in prolonging an inevitable outcome, I believe in the right to choose when you die, I don’t believe in any religion or type of afterlife. I believe that end of life care needs a good overhaul in the NHS - hospitals should be about making people better, hospices about making peoples’ deaths better. But the funding for both institutions is woeful.

I hope Archie is allowed to be at peace today. His mother is not a caring mother she is a selfish mother. Her attitude to the doctors and nurses is disgusting and cannot be excused because of her grief.

The same was true of Charlie Gard's parents. He was kept on life support far too long and they also said vile things about the doctors and nurses caring for him.