Archie Battersbee - Thread 4

[BreadInCaptivity]

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Archie Battersbee - Thread 3 http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/inthee_news/4601962-archie-battersbee-thread-3

I can't believe people are actually accusing her of being attention seeking

Surely that’s what all these interviews, TV appearances signify? She’s actively courting the attention. Including the night before her son’s ventilator was to be removed.

Hollie said that the only institution that had helped them was the UN. That of course ignores the Court of Appeal which allowed her first appeal, but more materially the reality is that the UN simply secured a short delay, which the courts and hospital have also allowed her time and again. If or when they eventually reach a decision, the very strong likelihood is that it will be exactly the same as the court's.

How can they make him recover if he's effectively brain dead? Something should be done about all these charlatans peddling false claims.

Yeah....plus if it looks like he can't travel to a hospice then going to another Country isn't going to happen. Not sure how much truth there is to it think it was reported on Sky and mentioned by mum so grapsing at straws. Seems cruel otherwise seeing as she'll take anything

What she doesn’t realise is that it’s a double-edged sword. As soon as this is over for Archie and the inquest starts they’ll turn on her as well

A new appeal. Shock horror. Anyone actually surprised

I wonder how tempting it is for the doctors to say "You know what, fine. Take him to a hospice, take him to Japan or Turkey. Just make your own arrangements, and sign this document to acknowledge that you accept he will die chaotically en route and you are doing this entirely of your own free will and are not holding us responsible".

As expected :

Archie Battersbee: Parents to take case to European Court of Human Rights

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-62403993

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-62403993

I was thinking similar… How would he get there? Who would pay for it/organise it?

So if this one is turned down can they can anywhere else or will that be it? Know feel have to try but they must know! Though guess gives them time which is what they want and if he does pass during that time that's also what they want.

I can't believe people think she's not being attention seeking tbh

I have no doubt they have said this to each other, many times.

Poor boy, afforded zero dignity and feel for the healthcare staff as well who are effectively having to treat a corpse; very disturbing. I hope this charade is soon over and his mum gets the help she so clearly needs as well.

Good post. Its tragic but he's brain dead and that can't change. There will always be charlatans who will promise cures and take advantage of grief and pain.

The talk of execution is shocking and deeply wrong. This sort of extremism is dangerous and only prolongs suffering, as well as denying others treatment.

I did wonder , but that Any Fucker said they were banned from Mumsnet 10 years ago

Not that I'm following those KiwiFam threads y'understand

I will preface this by saying I've only followed this quite loosely but I've tried to broadly keep up with events.

I will also say that it's very clear that the decision to let Archie slip away is the right one, and that Hollie is just desperately trying to cling on. I imagine if you felt your son's body grip your hand tightly, it would be hard to believe it's just a spasm/electrical impulse etc and not a sign of consciousness. We'd all hope to be more rational than Hollie is being, but honestly it really is a case of there but for the grace of god go I. I pray that I never have to find out what I would do.

The only question I had was whether the hospitals/doctors have handled this as sympathetically as they could. I don't know the answer to this, so I'm asking the question.

There's a world of difference between making up mad conspiracy theories and suggesting that the consultants/decision makers/management are being a bit hostile and abrupt.

I know I've been in hospitals in the past, including children's hospitals, where the medical decisions were spot on but the attitude of the consultant was horrible. But it's almost become taboo to suggest that a doctor/NHS staff could be anything other than perfect.

It's entirely possible that they're making the correct medical decisions but haven't been as sympathetic as they could to Archie's family. And reading some of the presumptions about Hollie on here, I wonder if they jumped to similar conclusions...?

The timelines feel that the hospital are pushing to pull the plug on Archie ASAP. I know this has been going on since April but it's been a constant legal fight. Reading the news, it feels almost like once the court ruling is made, Archie's family are up against the clock to get their next legal challenge in before the hospital switch off the machines.

I might be missing something here but it feels like the hospital are trying to rush through switching it all off even if it doesn't give Hollie etc time to pursue a legal challenge through every avenue, which she IS entitled to do (even if we don't agree with it). Like today for example - the machines were due to go off at 11am, and the hospital has said that if the EHCR papers aren't lodged by 9am they'll proceed as planned. That just feels wrong to me. I know this is horrible and dragging on, but if there's a legal process that Hollie is allowed to follow, then their aggressive timeline feels a bit - off?

Please, please don't misunderstand me. I don't think she's got a hope in hell of winning, and it would be kinder for all if she could just accept it. It's so very sad. And I also accept that Hollie is a bit of a divisive figure for many reasons.

Maybe I am missing something - I'm totally open to that possibility. My initial inclination though is to think that the way the hospital have handled this isn't the nicest. If I remember rightly, Charlie Gard's parents had a few days after the final ruling. I don't know, I trust the hospital's medical judgement implicitly, but I'm just not sure at all about how they've chosen to handle it.

It feels like the CLC are playing Hollie so much, they could have appealed to the ECHR a couple of weeks ago, in parallel to the UN appeal. They are the ones making it last minute, which is making Hollie feel more under stress and lashing out.

They need to keep her unbalanced or she might change her mind. It all seems highly manipulative.

(Her other claim of being rushed to the courts might have felt rushed but it was around 3 weeks, which is a long time in ICU)

But you and they are all capable of cognitive thought. This boy isn't. His brain is dead.

No-one is doing anything wrong. This is life and death and it is entirely appropriate to use the court system, accept help from anyone that will give it and also appropriate for that system to be pretty robust because other children need that bed.

I like this comment:
“We'd all hope to be more rational than Hollie is being, but honestly it really is a case of there but for the grace of god go I”

Think about what you are saying. This is somebodies child and you're talking about him taking up an nhs bed and his treatment being pointless. Imagine that was your child and people were talking about him like that. As a mother she will be clinging to every little bit of hope. I understand doctors decision but people should show a bit of compassion and respect. If it were my child and you said something like that, it would not be taken well, and that's putting it very lightly.

Just watched a quick snippet on bbc news - mum saying he has a brain injury and he's being discriminated against. He doesn't have a brain injury he is brain dead!

I feel sorry for her and the circumstances this happened in but her little boy died back in April and she needs to come to terms with that and stop wasting time and nhs resources! This is the biggest travesty in this for me.

My df had a brain aneurysm and died unexpectedly, I watched as the dr did the tests for brain activity hoping there would be. We watched his life support being turned off and the colour drain from him, which was awful. I always view his passing as the day of the incident not the day the life support was turned off, as he was already just a body, his soul had already gone.

@SkygardenTower

It feels like the CLC are playing Hollie so much, they could have appealed to the ECHR a couple of weeks ago, in parallel to the UN appeal. They are the ones making it last minute, which is making Hollie feel more under stress and lashing out.

Yes - They are playing the system first and foremost (for their own gain) and, as a consequence, they are playing her.

I know exactly what you are saying here and agree it feels like the easiest option and have thought myself over this and the other cases why not just allow the parents what they want.

The issue though is this then engages the entire point of the nhs treating patients under their best interests.

No one thinks the consultants are infallible.

But I do think they make decisions based on what they believe is the best interests.

Plus Archie wouldn't even likely get to the airport before his organs failed.