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Rachel Johnson and Motherhood

244 replies

Judy1234 · 13/01/2008 10:57

It is boring being at home. It's unremitting domestic toil so most mothers of under 5s now work and I am glad I worked full time when we had 3 under 5. RJ says in today's Sunday Times she was at home with 3 children under 5. More fool her I say. Why not instead ditch your guilt, get wonderful childcare for your children and have the best of all worlds she says men have secured in the last 50 years - success at work and time with the family. That's the way to go not to feel you have to be there as drudge and chief cook and bottle washer for 5 years with no gains for anyone. The only way we survived having 3 children under 5 and avoided the problem that does not speak its name or whatever RJ refers to Betty F calling it was by us both working happily and having the amount of child care and cleaning we could comfortably tolerate.

"Many congratulations to the alabaster beauty Nicole Kidman, who is due to hear the patter of tiny feet in July. Celebrity ?baby joy?, as it is invariably termed, always spreads the love around, and the so-called friends have duly announced that ?Nic and Keith [Urban] are riding the clouds? while Nicole?s publicist is confining herself to a press release that describes the gravid couple as ?thrilled?.

I?m as pleased as you are, and possibly even more pleased than Katie Holmes, who is married to Kidman?s ex, Tom Cruise, claims to be about it. But I have to admit to feeling that the predictable gush over one elderly primigravida, who happens to be an internationally worshipped movie star with bags of fairy dust and the world at her feet, threatens, as these occasions do, to obscure the less sparkly reality of early motherhood for many women, women whose lives cannot so gracefully gloss over the harsh truth that 40 is not the best time to start a baby; that most companies are structured around men with stay-at-home wives in mind; and that being at home all day in sole charge of babies and small children can be tiring, repetitive, isolating and indescribably dull.

When I had three children under four, I never knew how to answer when child-free friends called and asked, ?How are you?? So I would trill, ?Fine! Great!?

But in fact I felt exhausted all the time, to the point of delirium, and for about five years my proudest achievement was the time I managed to make a trip to the chemist without a double buggy, nappy bag and toddler ? and didn?t forget my wallet. But I never had postnatal depression, and in that sense and many others I recognise I was blessed. For the day after the Kidman-Urban announcement we learnt of Heather Finkill, 30, the newly delivered mother of two-week-old twins, Lacey and Isobel. Mrs Finkill left her Hampshire house at 7am and walked in front of a lorry on the northbound carriageway of the M3.

Her death is desperately sad and sounds like an extreme case. But actually such stories aren?t all that uncommon. Suicide is the leading cause of death in young mothers. One in five women, according to the charity Perinatal Illness UK, suffers from some form of postnatal depression. Even now. In fact, make that, especially now.

In 1963 Betty Friedan defined, in The Feminine Mystique, the feeling of frustrated, morale-sapping dread that many ? especially educated ? women feel at the onset of domesticity, housewifery and motherhood. She called it ?the problem with no name?.

In the 1970s Spare Rib, the feminist magazine, was inundated by manuscripts from women confessing to their loneliness and shame that they did not find motherhood the idyllic scenario that it was cracked up to be.

But in 2008, even though we have the equal pay act and flexitime and supposedly bags of paternal involvement, even though we have Harriet Harperson insisting that ?it must be the cultural norm for both mothers and fathers to work flexibly so they can balance earning a living while bringing up their children?, mums are still depressed. More than ever, it appears, if the one-in-five figure is right.

I hesitate to put this theory forward, but I will anyway. I think that what lies behind this sorority of suffering is that nothing has come along to make motherhood any easier since the dawn of feminism, and lots has come along to make it harder.

As well as the demands of pregnancy, childbirth and small children, women are now expected to work when they?re expecting and beyond. And when they?ve produced the next generation, they discover to their dismay that they have just taken on a second profession. They will be responsible for everything their child does, annually audited, and to blame for it.

Meanwhile their husbands have inexplicably declined the tempting new-Labour offers of flexitime and paid paternity leave to share parental duties. Studies show that while fathers evince genuine desire to be involved in their children?s lives, they make poorer primary carers for sons, think that spaghetti hoops three times a day can?t be wrong and have herd immunity to mess.

They want family time and intimacy with their children but are understandably reluctant to extend this involvement so it risks annoying the boss or involves being made to hand-wash the Weenee pouch pants.

?Fathers are fine with a day out but they are reluctant to take on the menial everyday tasks like the laundry, and studies show that they want to have the status of a job and paid work and to be able, on top of that, to come home to spend time with their children,? Dr Esther Dermott told me. A sociologist who specialises in ?contemporary fatherhood? at Bristol University, she is the author of the father-son study. ?The fact that new fathers don?t reduce their working hours also means that the burden of childcare is much more likely to fall on the mother, rather than being shared,? she said.

Mmm. If I hear the expert correctly, what she said is that, in modern society, it?s men who are validating themselves in the workplace, continuing their careers and returning home to the fragrant, pyjamaed children, to the hot supper. Not women. If that is the case, it turns out that the past 40 years have resulted not in mothers having it all, but fathers.

Well, what can I say? Well done, chaps. "

OP posts:
SheikYerbouti · 13/01/2008 17:12

In fact, in all 3 women's cases, they are only writing this shite because they have famous surnames, niot because they know what life is like

themildmanneredjanitor · 13/01/2008 17:16

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FluffyMummy123 · 13/01/2008 17:16

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FluffyMummy123 · 13/01/2008 17:17

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SheikYerbouti · 13/01/2008 17:18

I'm sure lawyers and brain surgeons have bits of their job that they find dull, like all the paperwork etc etc.

No job is 100% adrenaline-rushing-i'm-so-excited-i'm shitting-my-pants is it?

SheikYerbouti · 13/01/2008 17:20

I had a good education too, Cod, and I do a good jiob, but for shit wages (Production editor, £8.50ph)

I also live in an area where wages are shite, but cost of living is high, alm,ost as high as in London, but we don;t get London salaries to compensate

themildmanneredjanitor · 13/01/2008 17:21

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SueBaroo · 13/01/2008 17:23

I'm outsourcing the wage-earning to my husband.

Walnutshell · 13/01/2008 17:27

Although I entirely agree that things have not improved significantly enough for women in terms of work and childcare, I am utterly utterly fed-up with hearing (from WOMEN) a message that essentially belittles any woman who chooses to stay at home to bring up her children. And I use the word "choose" with caution because any choice as complex as this one is inherently fraught with undesirable as well desirable conditions.

JingleyJen · 13/01/2008 17:33

Wow - there is no doubt that the magic formula that works for everyone doesn't exist.
I stay at home with my boys and 85% of the time I love it and 15% of the time I wonder how comfortable and quiet a jail cell would be - a full nights sleep - being able to have a wee without a running commentary about what is going on on Cbeebies.

But I would not change my decision to stay at home.
Now if I won the lottery would I be doing my own ironing - Hmm NO!
Would I clean my own house - NO
but would I look after the kids or get a nanny - I would look after the kids.

I am more than happy to outsource the wage earning to DH and the nappy changes whilst he is home (we had a deal - I would breastfeed if he did nappies)
We have a balanced marriage of work load however I do see that some housework should fall on my shoulders as he is out of the house for so much of the week.

I am not making sense but I have always thought twice about taking parenting advice from people who don't live in the real world.

DarthVader · 13/01/2008 17:37

My work is relatively well paid. It is also boring. Also stressful and often unpleasant.

Staying at home with my child is low stress and is mainly hugely rewarding and enjoyable.

I work part time because financial independance is important to me and because I am lucky enough that my mum helps me with childcare.

That's my work/life balance. I am much better at being a mum than at my job. For xenia perhaps the opposite is true, or more likely her definition of being a good mum is different. She is probably a far better financial provider for her children than I am after all.

We all find the best balance we can according to our own values and circumstances. Xenia fulfills a function on mumsnet - we need someone to champion work as an option. Maybe Xenia made the right decisions for herself and her family - let's hope so. Understanding the circumstances of others might not be her strong point but then nobody's perfect.

DarthVader · 13/01/2008 17:38

Oh yeah, and apparently most slebs in their 40's use donor eggs.

DarthVader · 13/01/2008 17:44

For me, work is boring because you can't choose what you do. Home is exciting if you want it to be and if you have imagination.

ahundredtimes · 13/01/2008 18:12

Xenia - Cusk's book was written in the throes of post-natal depression - she can articulate the worst aspects of mothering well, because she is a writer, but she did not find being with her baby boring though, it was much more than that.

I think work is important, just generally, working is a good thing to do. I admire Cod's volunteer work, I think that's working, I admire Megalegs' chickens and animals and vegetables - I think that is work too. Neither of those is paid, but is admirable, involving and active.

This is a complex issue, and we don't really know how it will be resolved. A whole generation will emerge whose mother's in the main were out of work, as opposed to my generation whose mother's were mostly at home, possibly chewing the carpet, but at home all the same. It's a vast social experiment really.

I quite like the simplicity of Xenia's vision, but I don't think it answers a lot of the more complex issues to do with motherhood and work.

sandyballs · 13/01/2008 18:21

I spent most of the first 4 years of my twins' life at home and I wouldn't have missed it for the world. It was a precious time that I will never get back, and I have lots of very happy memories of it. Obviously there were dark days but that would have been the case at work too. I'm incredibly grateful to DH for taking on an extra job to enable me to stay at home for that long. Why does work define so many people, I really don't understand it. My family will always be more important than any job, and our family life is definitely much easier and smoother without me working full time.

Judy1234 · 13/01/2008 19:47

I have very happy memories of my twins' early life too except I was work. I didn't feel I missed anything by working full time over the 23 years I've so far been a mother.

On pay etc it's something to speak to your daughters about because if they want the luxury of these types of choices then their career choice is ultra important and then they won't be trapped into the minimum wage type jobs and no chance to pay a nanny if that would be their preference (unless they marry someone rich).

Of course most women or men can't earn a lot of money - the average wage is £24k or something but a lot of women do have some choice, Sunday Times readers, the author of the article Rachel J and if she found it so boring at home why didn't she work? It's the simple solution many women find works for them. I was just advocating it but I hardly need to - most women work anyway and always have done for their self respect for money and to eat.

OP posts:
WideWebWitch · 13/01/2008 19:49

The thing is, much as I disagree with RJ on some of this and also with Xenia's radical stance on the whole woth/sahp issue, I do see that men haven't in the main clamoured to apply for flexible working and part time jobs etc in order to share looking after children. And (please someone correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think I am) they don't seem to be pulling their weight wrt domestic stuff in the main either.

And I do think that's a shame. Because for these things (flexible working/pt etc) to be taken seriously as career options then men as well as women need to, imo, embrace the idea that
a) looking after children IS WORK, albeit work that is pleasurable some of the time, just like paid work is pleasurable some of the time and
b) being part time or working flexibly shouldn't mean as a worker a person isn't taken seriously and
c) that they should bloody well do their share.

And much as I see that going back to work isn't always financially viable I think sometimes if you consider a marital/partnership unit AS a unit and add the man's salary into the equation rather than deciding that it's all from a WOMAN'S salary (hang on, why sould WOMEN pay for all the childcare? IT's a JOINT responsiblity imo) then it does become more of a realistic option. eg if a woman is paid £30 and a nanny is £20k then the maths doesn't work out. If in this example we added Cod's dh's salary to the mix then it WOULD be financially viable for cod to work, I bet.

And plenty of women enjoy working, like what they do (regardless of its pay) and wnat to continue, after children. And that's fair enough. I also think it's fair enough if a couple decide one partner should stay at home and if that person (man or woman) wants to. I wouldn't denigrate anyone's choice in that.

I do think there's a valid point here though about how women can miss out on years of rewarding stuff (not to mention cash, pension benefits, fun, experience, futue earnings, something they continue to do once the children are older) because they stay at home. And I think sometimes these valid points get lost in a bitter battle between people who want to assert that their choice is the right one and the only sensible one. If it's the right one for them, fine, doesn't make it right for everyone.

Iota · 13/01/2008 19:49

self respect? why does a women need to work to have self respect?

rantinghousewife · 13/01/2008 19:55

Look, I'm sorry Xenia, really I am. But I did not want to go back to work when my youngest was so young, I had the luxury of not having to, so I didn't. With my first, I had to and did when he was 5 months and I regretted it.
Now, I think you do make some valid points, between you and me, if dh had been given the choice he would have happily given up work to be a SAHD. But I think you just have to accept that not every woman feels the same way as you and stop banging on about it.
You are not going to make those who've made the choice (and are happy to be a SAHM) change their minds.

Anna8888 · 13/01/2008 19:57

Iota - a woman does of course not need to work to have self-respect. There is absolutely no relationship whatsover between work and self-respect.

Self-respect comes of doing whatever you need to do in life to get on to the best of your abilities, IMO.

Judy1234 · 13/01/2008 20:02

We don't have that many threads on it and people are free not to read them.

ww's comment is exactly what I thought when I read the sexist comment about that seemed to assume women pay for child care. They don't. It should be 50% from each salary. It is as much something the man needs to pay for as the woman and is in most modern families.

I certainly agree not all parents feel the same about these issues.

It would be interesting to roll us all forward to us age say 65 and see who regrets giving up work, who is still married, whose husband died or ran off leaving her penniless, who is happily married and comfortably off and never went back to work and who went back and was able to resume their career despite a break etc etc.

OP posts:
ahundredtimes · 13/01/2008 20:03

And possibly more interesting to talk to their children too.

rantinghousewife · 13/01/2008 20:04

Yes, I know and I am overly harsh and yes, it would be interesting to see how people would feel when they're older. You might be surprised to find that some women regret working, along with those that regret staying at home.

Anna8888 · 13/01/2008 20:06

Xenia - if you argue, as you do, that childcare should be paid 50% by the father and 50% by the mother in cases where both parents work, it also follows, does it not, that where one parent works and the other doesn't, the parent that works share his/her income 50:50 with the non-working parent? In which case, why would there be a problem of financial inequality in families where only one adult works?

Personally, I don't adhere to the 50:50 vision of marriage. But then, the tax system in the country in which I live does not adhere to it either, and it is impossible to organise one's financial affairs independently of the tax legislation governing marriage/relationships/parenthood of the country one pays tax in.

WideWebWitch · 13/01/2008 20:09

anna888, I do agree with that actually, for me anyway. We both work and it all goes into one account and everything comes out of it. I'm the higher earner but it doesn't matter, dh's contribution is equal imo as he pulls his weight wrt childcare/domestic stuff. If he didn't I'd have to pay someone to do it and while it would still be financially viable for me to work, I recognise that we are a partnership and therefore we do mostly accept 50 50 responsbility for things.

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