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Rachel Johnson and Motherhood

244 replies

Judy1234 · 13/01/2008 10:57

It is boring being at home. It's unremitting domestic toil so most mothers of under 5s now work and I am glad I worked full time when we had 3 under 5. RJ says in today's Sunday Times she was at home with 3 children under 5. More fool her I say. Why not instead ditch your guilt, get wonderful childcare for your children and have the best of all worlds she says men have secured in the last 50 years - success at work and time with the family. That's the way to go not to feel you have to be there as drudge and chief cook and bottle washer for 5 years with no gains for anyone. The only way we survived having 3 children under 5 and avoided the problem that does not speak its name or whatever RJ refers to Betty F calling it was by us both working happily and having the amount of child care and cleaning we could comfortably tolerate.

"Many congratulations to the alabaster beauty Nicole Kidman, who is due to hear the patter of tiny feet in July. Celebrity ?baby joy?, as it is invariably termed, always spreads the love around, and the so-called friends have duly announced that ?Nic and Keith [Urban] are riding the clouds? while Nicole?s publicist is confining herself to a press release that describes the gravid couple as ?thrilled?.

I?m as pleased as you are, and possibly even more pleased than Katie Holmes, who is married to Kidman?s ex, Tom Cruise, claims to be about it. But I have to admit to feeling that the predictable gush over one elderly primigravida, who happens to be an internationally worshipped movie star with bags of fairy dust and the world at her feet, threatens, as these occasions do, to obscure the less sparkly reality of early motherhood for many women, women whose lives cannot so gracefully gloss over the harsh truth that 40 is not the best time to start a baby; that most companies are structured around men with stay-at-home wives in mind; and that being at home all day in sole charge of babies and small children can be tiring, repetitive, isolating and indescribably dull.

When I had three children under four, I never knew how to answer when child-free friends called and asked, ?How are you?? So I would trill, ?Fine! Great!?

But in fact I felt exhausted all the time, to the point of delirium, and for about five years my proudest achievement was the time I managed to make a trip to the chemist without a double buggy, nappy bag and toddler ? and didn?t forget my wallet. But I never had postnatal depression, and in that sense and many others I recognise I was blessed. For the day after the Kidman-Urban announcement we learnt of Heather Finkill, 30, the newly delivered mother of two-week-old twins, Lacey and Isobel. Mrs Finkill left her Hampshire house at 7am and walked in front of a lorry on the northbound carriageway of the M3.

Her death is desperately sad and sounds like an extreme case. But actually such stories aren?t all that uncommon. Suicide is the leading cause of death in young mothers. One in five women, according to the charity Perinatal Illness UK, suffers from some form of postnatal depression. Even now. In fact, make that, especially now.

In 1963 Betty Friedan defined, in The Feminine Mystique, the feeling of frustrated, morale-sapping dread that many ? especially educated ? women feel at the onset of domesticity, housewifery and motherhood. She called it ?the problem with no name?.

In the 1970s Spare Rib, the feminist magazine, was inundated by manuscripts from women confessing to their loneliness and shame that they did not find motherhood the idyllic scenario that it was cracked up to be.

But in 2008, even though we have the equal pay act and flexitime and supposedly bags of paternal involvement, even though we have Harriet Harperson insisting that ?it must be the cultural norm for both mothers and fathers to work flexibly so they can balance earning a living while bringing up their children?, mums are still depressed. More than ever, it appears, if the one-in-five figure is right.

I hesitate to put this theory forward, but I will anyway. I think that what lies behind this sorority of suffering is that nothing has come along to make motherhood any easier since the dawn of feminism, and lots has come along to make it harder.

As well as the demands of pregnancy, childbirth and small children, women are now expected to work when they?re expecting and beyond. And when they?ve produced the next generation, they discover to their dismay that they have just taken on a second profession. They will be responsible for everything their child does, annually audited, and to blame for it.

Meanwhile their husbands have inexplicably declined the tempting new-Labour offers of flexitime and paid paternity leave to share parental duties. Studies show that while fathers evince genuine desire to be involved in their children?s lives, they make poorer primary carers for sons, think that spaghetti hoops three times a day can?t be wrong and have herd immunity to mess.

They want family time and intimacy with their children but are understandably reluctant to extend this involvement so it risks annoying the boss or involves being made to hand-wash the Weenee pouch pants.

?Fathers are fine with a day out but they are reluctant to take on the menial everyday tasks like the laundry, and studies show that they want to have the status of a job and paid work and to be able, on top of that, to come home to spend time with their children,? Dr Esther Dermott told me. A sociologist who specialises in ?contemporary fatherhood? at Bristol University, she is the author of the father-son study. ?The fact that new fathers don?t reduce their working hours also means that the burden of childcare is much more likely to fall on the mother, rather than being shared,? she said.

Mmm. If I hear the expert correctly, what she said is that, in modern society, it?s men who are validating themselves in the workplace, continuing their careers and returning home to the fragrant, pyjamaed children, to the hot supper. Not women. If that is the case, it turns out that the past 40 years have resulted not in mothers having it all, but fathers.

Well, what can I say? Well done, chaps. "

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becaroo · 13/01/2008 11:10

I call women my age (the 30-40 age group) "The Cosmo Generation". How we all devoured the ramblings of that glossy trash! "We can have it all!!!"

And here's the thing...we have all been lied to.

Anyone who believes that a woman can have it all is deluded or - possibly - Nicole Kidman (or other suitably famous person who have people to do everything for them)

If you work outside the home, your family life WILL suffer. It will be stressful and guilt inducing.

If you dont work outside the home, your personal life WILL suffer. It will be stressful and guilt inducing.

Get the picture???

Pruners · 13/01/2008 11:13

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Iota · 13/01/2008 11:14

It's not boring being a SAHM when both your children are at school. It's liberating

WideWebWitch · 13/01/2008 11:14

She says: "Fathers are fine with a day out but they are reluctant to take on the menial everyday tasks like the laundry, and studies show that they want to have the status of a job and paid work and to be able, on top of that, to come home to spend time with their children,?... ?The fact that new fathers don?t reduce their working hours also means that the burden of childcare is much more likely to fall on the mother, rather than being shared,? she said.

"Mmm. If I hear the expert correctly, what she said is that, in modern society, it?s men who are validating themselves in the workplace, continuing their careers and returning home to the fragrant, pyjamaed children, to the hot supper. Not women."

Not in my house. We both work ft oth and dh is the one who drops and collects both children (one of them not biologically his), does any laundry the cleaner hasn't done, cooks many of the evening meals and takes at least 50% responsibility for childcare and the drudgery that is running a house. I wouldn't be with him if he didn't.

I agree with some of the article. I find early babyhood and childhood boring and would rather work. I also think it's sad when women end up not only doing childcare but also becoming unpaid slaves and taking responsbility for EVERYTHING, i.e. cleaning, cooking, shopping etc. And many working women could do with a 'traditional wife' whereas I think plenty of working men have one. One who enables them to succeed at work, unfettered by domestic tedium and trivia.

WideWebWitch · 13/01/2008 11:16

I do, on the whole, disagree with a lot of things RJ writes though. She irritates me, prob because of that annoying "have and have yachts" article. have yachts, fgs.

Judy1234 · 13/01/2008 11:18

Your family life does not suffer if mother and father work outside the home. That's where RJ went wrong. She didn't need to suffer those dull years as a domestic slave but she bought into the myth and sexist conditioning which says women are only worth anything if they are with their babies a set number of hours a day. More fool her and anyone else who chooses that route to dull martyrdom. Do what many fathers do - try to get home on time, enjoy bed times, bath times, weekends, days off, holidays with gorgeous toddlers but don't subject yourse.f to it 24/7 because that is so dull and in any event in most cultures where people can afford it even women subcontract it out! It's common sense. Of course if you adore it go for it.

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becaroo · 13/01/2008 11:28

My dh does his fair share, due to my bad health partially, and his desire to spend time with his son.

Am I glad I spent 4 years at home with my ds? Yes. He needed me. There will be times in the future (I'm thingkng teenager!) when he won't want to know me.

Was it easy? No. Nothing worth doing ever is.

There is no right answer here....despite what Ms Johnson says.

Pruners · 13/01/2008 11:33

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RubyRioja · 13/01/2008 11:33

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Judy1234 · 13/01/2008 12:15

Two of our nannies had babies. One carried on working and brought the babies to work. The other left.

Parents of either gender often have elderly relatives to care for too and again there are different ways to deal with it. My father has chosen to stay in his own home with carers but he could certainly live with any of us if that were his choice. However I don't agree yo don't bond with a child just because as a man or woman you choose to work. You can be a parent and work and more parents do that than don't.

It's just if like RJ and me you find being home with small children very hard work then you shouldn't feel guilty about paying others or using a spouse to help you with it.

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ahundredtimes · 13/01/2008 12:24

I think she has a good point actually.

The 70s feminists all concentrated on housework - that really was seen as the battleground, and they overlooked that the real battleground is childcare. As a generation we were sold down the river as a result, we were educated, led to have expectations and aspirations, until the thorny issue of having children raised its head.

I don't think it's been reconciled properly yet. I'm not sure becoming a man is the answer though and passing the responsibility of our children to an employee.

I hope it's sorted better for my daughter.

RubyRioja · 13/01/2008 12:28

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themildmanneredjanitor · 13/01/2008 12:32

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Pruners · 13/01/2008 12:35

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Judy1234 · 13/01/2008 13:17

I don't mind people describing their position at all. I expect there are quite a lot of women like me and many men who love having children but would not want to look after them all day. I genuinely always did find it boring and it likes RJ, although she stayed home, did so too. Plenty of non working women have child care too. I was lucky in my 20s to feel fit when I was pregnant and not to have any complications or sick children and also an agreement with their father that if the childcare didn't work then he would give up work (as he earned a lot less).

I wonder why you felt no one else could lok after your little bundle and yet your husband was perfectly content to outsource childcare to you? Certainly more men than women seem happy that the child is with a nanny or nursery or a wife than those who say no way will anyone except me the father be with this child 24/7.

Rachel J's article is getting at those women who do not like being home. I remember reading Rachel Cusk's book - on becoming a mother which gives a very accurate portrayal of how a new baby affects you. I felt like that too - the not having time to get dressed even some days. It's just too much for most adults who need a break and like their work.

For mothers and stay at home fathers who love their lives, fine but there is another category who stay home out of guilt unnecessarily when they would be happier back at work.

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Tortington · 13/01/2008 13:53

what a toff article

witht he - ohh go back to work and get childcare

like ery fucker can do it

like every one has a choice.

so yes i agree this argument is tedious in the extreme Xenia - and your bloody constant ramblings to assure yourself that you did the right thing and eveyone else in the world is wrong becuase you are the best at everything you do ever.

if there is some midle class suburban idyl that poor posh mums cant live up to - am truly sorry that you are faced with the choice of desperate housewife in the inside and stepford housewofe on the outside - OR a high flying career that justifies your 1st at Oxford and the private education you had.

but dya know what, people who dont live in london - and dont live in the city - actually exist - relatinships where one works in a factory or as a security guard whilst the other works at asda, picks upthe kids from school and gets an extra shift n for £6ph actually exists

and its not becuase they dont work hard enough at LIFE CHANCES as has patronisingly been suggested in past all too similar arguments.

DUll it isn't - but the egocentricness of this fucking argument pisses me right off

some people dont have a choice- tell that to the fucking sunday times

FluffyMummy123 · 13/01/2008 13:55

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SueBaroo · 13/01/2008 14:17

[raspberry]

Not everything in life that is worthwhile is going to be depserately interesting 100% of the time. Not a job, not looking after your children, not doing the house work, not caring for your elderly or ill mother.

It's not martyrdom to do something that you believe is right, even though you don't always enjoy it. It's just real life.

Judy1234 · 13/01/2008 14:18

But many do and some people are able to work their way out of poverty and most don't. So certainly for those who do have choices there are important issues to talk about. Even the shop girl married to the Tesco delivery man has to decide if she is a full time housewife or goes back to working when maternity leave is up.

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hellish · 13/01/2008 14:31

Well said custardo.

I am so happy I was able to be mostly at home with my dds, and I don't believe that anyone enjoys any job 100% of the time.

I wonder why you felt no one else could lok after your little bundle and yet your husband was perfectly content to outsource childcare to you? Certainly more men than women seem happy that the child is with a nanny or nursery or a wife than those who say no way will anyone except me the father be with this child 24/7.

It's obvious - men and women are different, mothers and fathers are different, both are important, both care about and love their children, but differently

Judy1234 · 13/01/2008 14:37

Buyt most mothers of under 5s work and they aren't that different from men in that sense. Perhaps some women just have different hormone strengths inside them then if it's not all conditioning.

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exbatt · 13/01/2008 14:41

You have to be joking if you really believe every working mother (or father for that matter) has 'the best of both worlds'. You only have to talk to people or read many many threads on here to realise how many people find their jobs boring or stressful or inflexible or low paid or who like their jobs but don't like their hours. Or who quite like working but hate having to juggle childcare and other issues. Or who really don't want to work but feel they have no choice.

Xenia, you continue to perpetuate the myth that there are Mothers Who Work (this being presumably A Good Thing) and Mothers Who Don't Work (Very Bad). In reality of course, most mothers do work. Where they vary is when they go back to work and for how many hours.

You obviously whole-heartedly approve of the mothers who return to full-time work when their babies are only months old. But what about those who return to work after one year, or 2 or 5, or even, heaven forbid, when their youngest child goes to secondary school.

All of these scenarios happen. It is very rare these days for a woman never to work, or to never work again after having children - not that I think there is necessarily anything wrong with the latter case. The days of jobs for life are long gone, and the workplace is very different now. Most men change jobs fairly often and often careers too. So do women, and I know many many cases of women successfully returning to work in their 30s, 40s or even older. Does that make their choices any less valid than someone who goes back to work straight from maternity leave?

I have had children at school for over 10 years now, and in that time I have known very few women who are not working in some capacity by the time the youngest is say 8 or 9. So all of these women are indeed working mothers, it's just that they delayed the working bit for a few years. And good for them - at least they haven't fallen into the conditioning that women are only worth something if they are a wage slave!

Tortington · 13/01/2008 15:10

"But many do and some people are able to work their way out of poverty and most don't."

what the crappin' ell does that mean - some do some dont some might do ...

"So certainly for those who do have choices ..."

let talk about my world again

"...there are important issues to talk about".

"Even the shop girl married to the Tesco delivery man has to decide if she is a full time housewife or goes back to working when maternity leave is up."

no no no no no no no

its not a decision for most

"i would like to stay at home but paying the god damned mortgage to get myself out of poverty wont allow me to .." isn't a choice

" I want to go back to working at asda, but i was only part time and i cant get the child care"
isn't a choice

jeez

ruty · 13/01/2008 15:12

I constantly fail to understand why some normally intelligent women insist that their choice is the right way and other choices are wrong, or made by stupid women. Baffling.

Tortington · 13/01/2008 15:20

indeed Ruty. the blinkers are astounding, the empathy nil, awareness not appropriate beucase doesnt affect on a personal level. and knowledge of what is being talked about fuck and all