Gordon Brown in favour of presumed consent for organ donation

[WendyWeber]

It's a start

I agree with the morals bit but there really are people that just cannot, CANNOT, cope with the idea of being buried/cremated without their leg bones, heart, or their eyes etc. They may agree whole heartedly in principle to donation but just can't get over a personal fear which to them can be a nightmare. Do you think that people who can't bear the thought of donating their own bones (but may or may not be happy to donate any other part of their body) should refuse to accept a human bone graft for example?

ok X-post

No-one should have to refuse or be refused a much needed transplant.

The receiver needs to square it with their own beliefs just as the donor has.

i dont agree with this 'if you wont donate then you shouldnt recieve an organ' because tbh quite honest, i n a lot peoples cases they just dont think about organ donation untill it happens to then. i have been quite vocal for many years about organ donation, but ONLY because Peter needed a new heart. If he had been fit and well and didnt need a transplant, then i doubt i would be as passionate about it as i am. Through Peter, and being at the hospital, I am seen, first hand, how much of a difference donating organs can make. The picture of Peter before and after transplant on my 27th august 07 blog entry only shows a tiny fraction of the difference a donated heart made to our lives.

I know mumsnetter have been very supportive over the donor situation over the years, but i also know that many didnt register untill i started being very vocal about the situation. becuase you just dont think about it in a normal day to day life.

opt out is getting people talking about organ donation, and i do feel its one way of increasing the amount of donor organs/grafts available for patients. But i do also think more general awareness is needed. i know this video made some people more aware as well.

Sorry MrsJD - someone earlier was saying 'no donate, no receive' and I jumped to conclusions without reading your views properly.

S'Ok

If you do not want to donate though I would think you have a basic very fundamental to transplantation as a whole and so wouldn't want an organ either which is why I think if you don't want to donate you shouldn't recieve either.It does make it more important than ever that this topic is more openly discussed in families etc.

Well it seems that the presumed consent issue might just have been to get discussion going: the Organ Donation Taskforce want instead to organise a massive campaign to raise awareness.

Letter to the Guardian with some interesting staistics - not enough of them though, eg how many transplants are done, how many die on the waiting list.

Choice is not negated in this - you still have the choice to opt out. If you don't agree, just make sure you do.

jura

MT, there is a choice, nobody is denying that. It is the kind of choice that bothers many people. I would prefer if the choice was to opt-in, rather than out. Realistically, people have busy lives, and not everyone who does not want to donate will opt-out by the time they die, for the simple reason, that no-one knows when they are going to die. It's like wills. Many people never get round to get that sorted.
Opt-out is generally wrong but when we are talking of body parts, it is just wrong wrong wrong.
so, it is not organ donation we are discussing here (most people agree it is a question of basic solidarity) but in what terms you want to be a potential donor. In many cases it will take the "voluntary" aspect away from the donation, and therefore it won't be a donation. Quite frankly, the thought of someone who did not want to donate being made an organ "donor" just because he never got round to opt-out for whatever reason, is not very nice.

But if it is something you feel THAT strongly about, you opt out. Any you know, someone dying in front of your eyes, waiting for a new organ that could have been donated by someone who just never got round to opting in isn't very nice either.

Are we just going round in circles now?

yes I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one

ILWST, what about somebody who did want to be an organ donor but hadn't got round to filling in a donor form? That happens very often, I'm quite sure.

I'd far rather somebody was an unwilling organ donor and somebody else lived than somebody on the transplant list died because someone who didn't expect to die hadn't got round to filling in a donor card or tell anyone they were fine with it.

"when we are talking of body parts"

Where does it say that? I doubt that very much. Sounds like ridiculous slippery slope arguments of the Jeremy Vile kind.

Organ donation is just that, organ donation.

The will analogy does not stand up - will's are terribly complicated - registering yourself on (or off, as the case will be) the organ doner register is extremely simple.

It's fair as fair can be.

Advertising didn;t work - they tried it for decades. It is a waste of money. You get a form whenever you register with a doctor - evertyione does.

nope, sorry, I still don't buy the opt-out. Maybe I wouldn't mind a "soft" opt-out like in Spain, where in theory everyone is a potential donor, but in practice relatives are still asked by a specialised team whether they object to the deceased organ donation, and their whishes are respected. By spending some time (resources, ie money) with the affected families and applying high dosis of persuasion and a sensitive approach, they get a lot of positives. I have seen it, it works, and everybody is happy in the circumsntances. A cold approach like a "presumed consent" without listening to the families is just horrid.

Completeley agree with what Ilovesweeneytodd is saying. Think it's a very cold approach to a very sensative subject. For example, say a family member had died and they hadn't got around to opting out, but you knew that they wouldn't want to donate, you have no control over that with the opt out. It's 'presumed' they wanted to donate, no consent needed. Load of crap if you ask me.

Think it's a terrible idea, I relly do. And I'm very pro donation.

"you get a form whenever you register with a doctor - evertyione does."

Nonsense. We registered with a new GP last month and recieved no such forms. I have never seen them anywhere and would have signed up if I had.

A colleague from the US said the figures for donation are much higher there, firstly because there is a requirement for organ donation possibilities to be investigated before life support machines are switched off. Apparantly doctors find it difficult to approach grieving relatives after tragic accidents and often don't get around to it otherwise.

Secondly, everyone recieves the organ donation opt in as part of the form when they sign up for a drivers licence and the organ donation symbols are then marked on the license, which they must carry while driving. This is a helpful reminder of the responsibility of driving and also gives the option in a more appropriate context than a GP office.

Why can't similar measures be taken here? Along with trained counsellors as in Spain?

Question about organ donation is asked in the UK on the driving licence form. Did dh's LGV renewal yesterday and he ticked the box.

There is a fair bit of organ donation publicity around - it's a case of being switched on to it - everyone will be getting a leaflet through the door over the next couple of weeks. Hopefully the debate about opt out will get more people talking about it at least.

it is actually on the new patient registration forms at 0ur GP's surgery, and also on Boots advantage cards.

I am very glad they are doing this. LIke previous posters have said, i you feel strongly against donation you would make it clear. Unfortuately, under the current system, even if you are a registered donor, your family can stop your organs being donated after your death if you don't agree. This is very sad.
My nephew is now back on the transplant list for a liver. He has just turned 3. He was diagnosed with acute liver failure at just 13 months old and we nearly lost him as it took 5 days to get a suitable donor. He needed 2 liver transplants in the space of 48 hours as the first one didn't work. He now needs another liver as the second one was damaged during the transplant. PLease bear in mind that children this young need all sorts of organs, its not just older people. My family went through absolute hell and my sister couldn't come to my wedding as he was still in recovery and isolation.
If people had to opt out, very poorly children like my nephew wouldn't have to wait as long for organs. As far as I know you have to be 18 to donate but that may just be the current system.

Theform is actually on the bacl of the applixcatipn form, your NHS one. Everyone gets it, whether you read it is another thing