Gordon Brown in favour of presumed consent for organ donation

[WendyWeber]

It's a start

I have to say that despite years and years of Christian teaching, I had never heard once that we needed our bodies again after death .

A thought I have had is that I do think there will be people who would prefer to opt out but don't because they feel like it would make them look like a cad - similar to the 12.5% service charge that's added on to your bill. It's no longer a gift but an assumption and you look pretty bad if you opt out.

I'm personally all for dination but having worked in the field for years, i do appreciate that we all have different feelings, needs, wishes, abilities to cope etc etc. My parents have categorically stated that they absolutely could not cope with knowing that I had been buried with something missing. Other parents have stated that they can't cope with the thought that their children have no face (an image they have associated with cornea removal. Not accurate at all but it's in their head nonetheless and so very real to them). It's a complicated business. I do think that people need to speak to their families while they're alive and then make whatever decision they feel is right for them having had those conversations. It does make it easier for the living if they knew what the now deceased wanted - there is nothing worse than carrying someone else's burden.

I have to say that despite years and years of Christian teaching, I had never heard once that we needed our bodies again after death

---------

Ah well, there you go, learn something new everyday.

I disagree with an opt-out system. Me and my dh are on the donor register (signed up when we joined our current GPs surgery and have told all our relatives that it is something we feel really strongly about) but like Ladymuck says, I'm white, middleclassed, speak english and tend to keep up to date with the news. A lot of people in this country aren't and will have no idea that they have to opt out if they wish their body to remain complete after death (and let's not even get into the whole issue of people with learning difficulties etc). A lot of people on here have said that they don't really care what happens to their body after they die, which is fair enough but relatives do care, hence the revulsion when that old lady's body was taken by animal rights people, or when graveyards are vandalised. To some people and in some religions, removing parts of a body is just considered wrong and what right have we got to argue with their beliefs?

Yes I agree that it's important to save people if you can, but not if it means trampling all over the feeling of heartbroken recently bereaved relatives. I'd personally get some comfort from agreeing to donation on behalf of my next of kin but others might not and we have to respect that.

ooh Sue - do I detect some sarcasm ?

I absolutely agree with you Manictigger - my DH doesn't and thinks that his decision to donate should be final (and I would have no problems honouring his wishes at all if it was my final decision) but I do think that the living are desperately important too. That's why I think families should have these possibly immotive discussions while they still can and at the very least, all parties can go somewhere to accepting what will happen in the event. The law is the law and if it is up to the next of kin to make the very final call, then that is how it is and vice versa. Talking would give all parties a chance to make their feelings known and people can alter (or not) their decisions based on them. It might also give people the opportunity to do some research on what actually happens for donation of organs and tissues to occur and perhaps allay any fears they have based on what they imagine happens rather than what does.

The current sysem puts a lot of faith in the general public and they (we) are a very selfish bunch, with no thought for other peoples suffering.

How many people here regularly give blood??

Think of all the selfish buggers that don;t and then expect a full transfusion is necessary, thank you very much doctor.

Now why don't we make blood donation compulsory heh heh.

Yes, and how many people here donate to cancer research? "Think of the selfish buggers that don't and then expect a cure or drugs, thank you very much doctor"
The list is endless...

PutThat, no, no sarcasm, just a response to the sentence in your post that said you hadn't ever come across a Christian belief about getting our bodies back after death. I rather took your smiley as an indication that you were incredulous about it.

Re: blood transfusion, actually I'm quite sad because I am unable to donate and I'd quite like to.

In love yes the list is endless but blood and your organs are both something that have a direct impact here and now and don't cost you anything. Rich or poor we ca all have that warm glow!

Actually its more than that, they are both things that you just cannot buy and put us all on the same level with humanity.

...as opposed to issues such as not being able to afford to eat those free-range untortured chickens

hmm, you're right there microwave...

argh, no! not the chickens! can't flippin' well escape chickens on MN at the moment!

1 Corinth 15 talks about new spiritual bodies to replace the perishable ones.

Putthat if you want to discuss the Christian doctrine of resurrection, perhaps you could start a thread about it in the religion section (oo, that rhymes.. )

I sort of feel like it would be a bit of a rude hijack of this topic.

Not read entire thread and am probably repeating someone but did hear an excellent POV on this the other day and it was simply that if you don't put your name on the donor register you shouldn't expect to receive a donor organ if anything happens to you.... seems fair to me.

I don't want to at all but you brought it up

roffle No ta, bit early in the morning for theology. I can do you a nice fried egg sandwich instead, how about that?

Don't agree with it at all, neither does anybody I know.

I'm all up for helping people, my name is on the donation list saying they can take everything they want - as long as they don't touch my face. I hate the idea of my eyes being sewed shut etc. I'll also be putting dd's (7 months old) name on the list as soon as I have the time, but again, take anything but don't touch her face. I give blood whenever I can. I'm open to helping people, I really am but I do not agree with the idea of 'presumed consent'.

We're controlled so much in this country by what we do already, now they want to own our bodies?! Which is effectivley what they are going to do if this goes through. Can anybody actually tell me the last time they saw an advertisment for organ donation, or adding themselves to the list? I've never seen one! Anybody ever had a doctor ask if they had considered going onto the organ donation list before or after their appointments? I haven't. Anybody ever seen organ donation registry forms at the hospital? I haven't. If they pumped a little bit of money into some advertisment for organ donor cards etc, perhaps peoples awareness would grow. Which seems to me to be the problem. Lack of awareness - lack of frickin organs!

People lead busy lives. They're so busy in fact they don't usually stop to think about dying, and what they want done with their all important body bits. They're too focussed on living and the now. Why did I start donating blood? Not because a sudden thought came to me one day and I thought it'd be a good thing to do. I didn't even think about it, ever. Until I saw it being advertised whilst on a bus into town.

And I don't agree that people who don't want to be cut open when they're dead and their organs removed should not be allowed an organ transplant if they needed it. We're not perfect, nobody is. The idea of not being 'whole' when you're buried/cremated really makes some people feel uncomfortable, i.e. we should just let them die if they were to ever need a transplant? Fail to see the logic behind that one I'm affraid.

I thik it's a horrid idea of 'presumed consent' and think that they should instead spend a bit of money on advertisement of donar cards, have doctors ask at the start of an appt if they would consider going on the donar list and have donar forms at every hospital/doctors/clinic etc. Big piles of them at the front desks. I actually find myself being quite taken back by how many people are for it.

I don't agree that there's a lack of awareness - I do agree that people are often too busy to think about dying or to be bothered about signing up. Opt out would make those people think harder about it and that's a good thing.

Transplant should be available to all. Anyone who's uncomfortable with being buried 'with bits missing' can just opt out, but should maybe think about the morals of taking something that they're not prepared to give.

Just like people who don't slaughter their own meat shouldn't eat it I suppose?

Hardly comparable.

But actually if you aren't comfortable morally with how meat arrives at your table then you don't eat it.

It is perfectly comparable - you're suggesting that people should be penalised for having very real fears.

MumToCharlotte, I agree with you. I am a donor and would have no problems with a non-donor getting organs. I know the Spanish situation (Spain has a world record of organ donors) quite well. There are all-year-round campaigns, people going round homes, there are Donors' Days, in the local fiestas you usually see a cabin or info stand, where you can also register, etc. You see TV ads, posters everywhere in hospitals and waiting areas in doctor's surgeries... The organ donation campaign is everywhere, all through the year.
It seems to me that the UK should try that line first, although it will cost money, of course. But it won't alienate people and will get real organ "donations" (from the latin donare=to give, to donate) and not just "organ retrievals because the dead man did not get round to opt out in time".

Actually I didn't suggest that at all.

I said that transplant should be open to everyone but that people who opt out should think about the morals of receiving something that they weren't prepared to give.