Gordon Brown in favour of presumed consent for organ donation

[WendyWeber]

It's a start

Organs are what are mostly referred to. But the requirements are much broader - eyes, spinal cords and even skin harvesting for burns victims. Maybe a step too far at the beginning but I heard a saying once that our bodies are only on loan to us

There is a shortage of cadavers for medical students now too, I half-heard something about it on the radio this week.

Leaving your body to "medical science" used to be quite common I think (and saved on funeral costs)

I was planning on a cardboard box job for me but I might think again.

I've not much to add other than to echo others who have said that this is a bloody great idea. And also the salient point that if you really don't want your organs donated, that would be a far bigger trigger to take action than 'I want to, but I haven't got round to it'.

Also agree that anyone not willing to donate should be exempt from receiving. Or, of course, reconsider their position.

Is there anyone out there that strongly feels they would NOT want to donate their organs? Can I ask why? And can I also ask, would you expect to receive a transplant if you were in need of one?

On the children question, from what I've heard, children would not be included, leaving it totally up to relatives to decide if such a tragic situation were to occur.

Personally, I would opt-out anyway, but I think that I am definitely swinging towards the opt-out system.

I do have a little pause about it on the 'who owns our bodies' thing, but I think, on balance, that if more lives could be saved, that is a positive use of medical technology.

One of my children is OK with donating except for his corneas - that's quite a common attitude I think. He accepts it's illogical but it's how he feels...

Otherwise we're all happy with donating anything afaik.

Wendy that was the little girl I watched in theatre being a donor I worked at Poole Hospital.

CazH so sorry to hear about your son. Really sad for you not to beable to donate. Your courage was inspirational and to beable to discuss it here.

Wendy - i'm down for everything on the register, but ds and dh are down for everything except corneas. dh doesn't like the idea, and i conceded that his viewpoint counted in ds' case. i don't get it personally, but there you go.

Sue - why wouldn't you donate? i'm very curious, sorry!

UD, a number of reasons. I find it a bit of a moral dilemma, in terms of definitions of death. And it's also to do with my beliefs about burial and resurrection.

Dh is undecided at present, and I think I'd be quite glad of an opt-out system in his case, because it would force him to act one way or the other and mean I wouldn't have to deal with any moral dilemmas should the worst happen.

Sue - forgive me, but surely in a Christian faith, the body isn't what matters? the soul goes up to Heaven, and the body's left behind. it would be a good thing if your now-useless body could be used to save a life, wouldn't it?

i do think that this is one area where people really need to think clearly about what organ donation means, and what it means to them specifically. because at the end of the day it's night you're potentially saving someone's life.

I feel very uncomfortable with the idea of someone being ventilated not because it is serving any purpose for them but so their organs can be saved. And I know that is illogical and it's the right thing to do etc. etc. etc. but it is just something that troubles me. And presumed consent would put me in a real dilemma.

Ah, no, actually, in the Christian faith, the body is considered quite significant, because we believe we're going to get it back in the resurrection.

It's just a fairly old belief among Christians that the body should be buried, as opposed to other methods of disposal. It's one of the reasons cremation was actually illegal until recently.

I just want to make it clear that there is no biblical statement on this, so I'm not saying there is anything 'un-Christian' about Christians who do choose to donate organs. It's just a conscience issue.

(And, for those keeping score, I wouldn't accept a donated organ, no. But that's just because I agree, it would be very hypocritical of me not to donate and yet accept an organ for myself)

edam - why? just opt out.

out of sheer curiosity, would you want a donated organ if you were in that position? i know it's a difficult question to answer because you're not (at least, AFAIK) but still...

yeah - but is all that stuff in Revelations actually literal, or is it metaphor?

arf

But why would you want your body back at the Resurrection anyway, after it had been embalmed and buried and all that?

Might as well let someone else have the best of it first.

WW, to be perfectly honest, I really think I've already had the best of mine There's nowt left to offer anyone else.

Anyway, the idea isn't that you get it back embalmed, ready to put in a display cabinet. You get it back perfected.

Anyway, like I say, I'm broadly in favour of an opt-out system, so I wouldn't want to hijack the thread into an intricate discussion on the nuances on Christian belief about resurrection.

Ok, thankyou to wqendy for starting this thread, I had a donor card as did DP, we both just checked and dont have them in our wallet/purse so have just signed us all up on the donor register

I too am one who will not donate my corneas, again I know it is irrational but I must admit I'd probably be more inclined to do so if it were to save a life, as it isn't I'm happy to go with ym irrational thought process of being able to see where I'm going.

Though, I also believe if it was something I needed to get to wherever then the act of giving it up in the first place would surely be looked upon favourably anyway? I can't see God saying, "uh-oh you have no corneas, sorry you can't come"

UD, please do not get me started on how much of the bible is metaphorical and how much is literal!!! Shhhhhh!!

See, perfected, He'll give me some corneas if he thinks I need them!

No, I don't want to opt out, I want to be messy and agnostic about it rather than being forced to take sides. On the one hand, anyone can have anything I don't need etc. etc. On the other, the idea that you define someone as dead but keep their body alive so that you can take their organs really troubles me.

Btw, donating your body to medical science doesn't save you the cost of a funeral - they send the left-overs back. Eventually. At least, that's what my mother was told when she enquired.

What happened to 'love thy neighbour as thyself' and 'do unto others as you would wish to be done by'? Surely that is the ultimate sacrifice and act of love that could come from a tragic death.

Well, indeed, Tori, and one of the slight misgivings I have about the opt-out thing is that it somewhat removes that sense of chosen sacrifice.

i di originally sign up saying i wouldnt donate my coprneas, but i have since met some cornea transplant patients and donating sight to them has made a huuuuge difference to thir lives, and it is one aspect of organ donation that isnt covered very often. there is a poster on mumsnet whose friend has had a cornea transplant and i think he needs another one now.

I just googled, edam - they do send the bits back (ewwww), after 3 years, unless you say "no, really, I've had enough already, you go ahead"

(I was just googling. In fact - how sad is this? - I've emailed to ask if you can donate organs and then give them the rest, or if they only want the whole thing )

Human Tissue Authority

Edam there are rigourous tests performed on ventilated patients to establish brain function, mobility, sensitivity to stimuli, respirations and cardiac output etc,etc. These are performed by 2 separate senior Drs on 2 different occasions before any diagnosis about whether a person is deceased is made. The patient is incapable of functioning without a ventilator, it is literally to keep the tissues of the donor oxygenated whilst the recipient is prepared to receive the organ. This takes time as it can involve co-ordinating patients to receive organs at several different hospitals and trusts. Every recipient requires a scrub team and theatre free at the same time as once the organs are harvested they have a limited life span. This is necessary so that healthy organs are not wasted through poor planning.

I really don't see the problem in changing the system...surely if you really do NOT want your organs donated, then you would hold a card, and registre your wishes...because you would feel very strongly about this....as that seems to be more the case...people that are against something WILL make sure their wishes are taking into consideration, whilst, if you don't really mind, then you may never really think about it and the decision is up to your loved ones, who, at the time, are going through an emotionally tough time anywya, so, aren't really in the right state of mind....