OK for people to be called Muhammad, but not a teddy bear (not in Sudan anyway)

[WendyWeber]

Poor woman

40 lashes???

I love the calm quote from the Muslim teacher at the school:

"I was just impressed that she got them to vote"

These are 6-7 year-olds, they chose the alternative names and they voted for Muhammad (also the name of the most popular boy in the class apparently) and most of the parents are fine with it - just one fanatic took offence from the sound of it.

It was banned in almost every cinema in the US, however.

I haven't read the whole thread, but it occured to me today that since dd, who is three and a half, started to practice her nativity she has been calling her dolly 'baby Jesus'. I would like to think that nobody would bat an eyelid at this, and I am just shocked at the lunacy of this whole case.

bet you didn;t know that as well as virgins there are also oiled "boys" - not men - "boys" awaiting men in heaven too.

The whole thing is so sexually frustrated!

Oiled? Really?

LOL, really?

Yes it is isn't it.

lemme just check....

it's worse..

20 scented boys

72 virgins and 20 scented boys.

How many sheep?

the word is actually 'houri's' which means 'youths of eternal freshness. It is a feminine word in Arabic.
Try to get the facts right please.
And the 72 comes from a hadith which is considered weak.
Generally the qu'ran descibes heaven as more wondrous than you can imagine and to the desert nomads, even running water was pretty special. So it is described in human terms, wondrous food, sex, drink, jewells etc

and running down Islam isn't very pleasant just cos some of its followers are lunatics. All religions have members we feel emabressed about, as do all cultures. How would we feel if aliens judged the UK on a few episodes of Eastenders, or the gang killings and stabbings or the number of people taking illegal drugs?

I think you just hit the nail on the head girls.
Legions and legions of frustrated males with crazed puppeters (sp?) directing the surplus of testoterone towards jihad.

But please remember it's not like that in the whole muslim world though.
We are talking of very backwards societies here.
Islam is often instrumental but not always the absolute root of all evil/deranged/ill informed behaviour towards the west.

Take Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Turkey,Malaysia, Indonesia, Khirgystan. That's hundreds of millions of very decent muslims trying to make a better life for themselves in a very hostile world order.
These are predominantly muslim countries where sharia is applied but no flogging, excision, etc....
They are developping countries who have enough problems with political extremism within and could do without the west's diabolisation of what should be respected simply as their faith.
The same applies for muslims living in western societies.

Ozymandus I bit my tongue a few times but on this one, I can not resist the bait.

About your remark on Kossovo, do you apply the same thinking to all potential genocides or are you just being dismissive because Kossovars are muslims?

is sharia upheld in Turkey?

I thought that it was a secular state after Ata Turk?

No shariah is not allowed in Turkey, there is a massive battle for hearts and minds going on there. It is unlawful in some places for women to wear headscarves, so determined are the government that Turkey's secular values are upheld. They mihgt be fighting a losing battle though, lots will depend on the EU talks

It is, but I believe personal status matters like mariage/divorce/succession/adoption etc...between muslims can still be organised by sharia.

However, (and the same applies at least in Morocco and Tunisia I know for sure) there are safeguards in civil/penal law to amend/restrict/make exception to sharia where it is too strict for modern way of life.
ie: Women can ask for a divorce and obtain it without too much trouble. Flogging for adultery or anything else is strictly forbidden. Consent and minimum age for marriage etc...etc...
And you would never in a million years have a governemennt decide on a whim that women can't drive/vote/work etc...
Certainly not without a massive riot and borderline civil war situation (sad example of Algeria a few years back).

Slim, I don't understand your comment about Kosovo. Ozymanduas's point as I understand it is that the west did intervene there on behalf of Muslim victims, and yet there is this myth among certain Muslim countries of a Western war against Islam.
I don't think she was dismissing it in the least.

I agree absolutely that we shouldn?t tar all Muslim?s with a fundamentalist brush, but Islam is a fundamentalist religion, the word of god absolute, and any challenge to that literate stance is seen as a crime punishable by imprisonment or even death.

It does create a bit of a problem when trying to get the whole moderate line, when as Pukka aptly demonstrates, there is no choice in Islamic societies.

There was an attempt in Canada to have Sharia, also in Bradford - so DP tells me.

To be perfectly clear, It is a secular state but the lives of 99% of the population fall under sharia law, with the safeguards mentioned above.

Maybe Cote D'azur can clarify, here.

"'houri's' which means 'youths of eternal freshness"

If it were just another euphemism for virgin, there wouldn't be a distinction, surely?

yuouths can mean either gender and the word used in the Qu'ran is feminine. But no matter, women get gorgeous servants too

slim - You are completely wrong re Turkey.

There is no sharia law in Turkey, nor is sharia applied anywhere. There are no religious courts. You cannot have a religious wedding before you get married in a civil ceremony. Women are completely equal to men under law, and have got the right to vote in 1930, way before France, Greece, Switzerland etc.

The "credit and thanks" bit makes me unconfortable. It sounds vindicative.

my mistake sorry.

"Lives of 99% of population [of Turkey] fall under sharia law"

That is complete and utter BS.