JW mother refuses blood transfusion and dies leaving newborn twins

[WendyWeber]

report

"We can't believe she died after childbirth in this day and age, with all the technology there is."

They all share the responsibility for her death - her family, his family, the church, all of them. Can they really believe they all did the right thing?

my old faith isnt peters old faith (he is CoE). i know that will possibly come to loggerheads over dd's hospital care if they needed it even though i left the religion years ago as some things are hard to let go.

but tbh all i wanted was for peter to live. he has had several transfusions and it doesnt bother me in the slightest. it doesnt even bother my family (large % of them are still JW's) as they also all wanted him alive. they dont force their faith on us at all, and they respect that stand we make in our lives. even my grandad, who is v v v involved in JW religion asks after peter.

I dont know how i would've handled peters illness if had still been in the religion, but i guess it would've made me make some very hard descisions.

i have just read the article you linked to MMMJ, and i have to say it is very hard to read and upset me. i know there are some people in the religion who take it to the letter, but that hasnt been my experience at all.

yes i read the article.

tbh, i doubt that the risks WERE fully explained to her, you must all have read my threads about the care i recieved under the same trust . however, in this case they did everything that they could

I have no issues with JW making this choice for their own lives. It is sad but it was her life, her beliefs, her choice. Making the decision on behalf of a child is more problematic for me but that was not the case here.

"We can?t believe she died after childbirth in this day and age, with all the technology there is." Except she refused the help. That's why she died. Nothing to do with a lack of technology.

Very sad. I had a work colleague who died of complications following the birth of her triplets. When a mother dies like this it is always sad, no matter what the circumstances are

marina, i dont know about auto-transfusion, i knowe there are something called (i think) blood salvaging machines which will take blood loss during operation and clean and put it back (bit like dyalasis i think)

there are also other blood-replacment products that can be used.

The poor lady may still have died even with a blood tranfusion.

to the op, instead of condemning this family. i think we should admire them for their strength of faith and character.
they stuck to what they believe in. knowing death was very very likely, they stuck to their beliefs. and who are we to say their beliefs are right or wrong? i think it is admirable.

dont get me wrong. had they let a child bleed to death like that. i wouldnt be admireing them, because then it would be the parents making the decision for the kids. but this is about a legal adult making decisions for herself

Lissie, I'm sorry, I hadn't seen your threads about Emma previously
I hope there is a thorough probe into whether better advice and prompter intervention could have helped Emma take a fully informed view during her pregnancy, and certainly helped her family decide to change their minds sooner
LVOC thanks for clarifying that. One of dh's oldest friends has JW parents and they have both successfully had knee replacement ops and other surgeries over the years. The mum is very devout, the dad less so I understand. I assumed there was some way round this conundrum for JWs if wished.

This is unutterably sad and for me raises questions about man's interpretation of religion and how(and why) it applies to their lives. I have no doubt that the mum in question thought she was right, of course she was putting her faith in her religion, which is what most of us do in desperate times. She behaved in a very human way which is to believe that there is some kind of higher power that will make things ok.
When religions start to tell you what to do with your body, for me that is a purely controlling factor and I feel lucky to be able to gain comfort and security from my god(which is christian based) without feeling the need to adhere to the guidelines and conditions of any organised religion.
My heart bleeds for those poor people and lets face it, the babies will, I'm sure be loved and looked after but Emmas husband, friends and parents must be gong through hell

It was her choice to make, certainly not a choice I would have made in the same circumstance.

But it was her life. What I don't agree with is people (including JWs) using their oddball beliefs to interfere with the welfare of their children. If you have weird ideas about medical treatment, your children should be made temporary wards of the state the second they need medical attention.

There was a story in the Sydney Morning Herald today about the baby daughter of a homeopath who died because her parents refused to seek conventional medical treatment for her, and instead "treated" her with their useless herbs and potions. The case is before the coroner and I hope both parents are eventually jailed for long enough that they'll be infertile and unable to do this to any more children by the time they get out.

But the vast majority of religions governwhat you do with your body in some respect, most by telling you what you can and can't eat. This is simply a different interpretation. Very sad but it's the choice of the believer.

I hope the JW's are there for her dh- I know when my friend's child committed suicide the only people she could rely on were the local JW community, even though she made it clear she would not covert. Actually when DH was ill and I was very isolated, I found the JW's far more understanding than many other people who seemed to find it easier to avoid me, even though the JW were qute aware that I already have established beliefs.

So I very much hope his allowance of treatment doesn't cause him to feel alienated from hsi community, as this is the sort of time when they can become invaluable.

You can't compare being a homeopath with someone's religion!

I too believe that the bottom line must always be that we give people 'dominion' over their own bodies - I believe that there are circumstances in which I would rather die than remain alive...and I believe people should have access to safe dignified euthanasia.

The moral dilemma is added when people might not be ina position to have the 'last chance thought' or reflection - because of illness, mental illness, etc.

I know Soupy that is one of my main problems with religion. Spiritualism is to do with the mind, they should have no claim over the body.

So mind control is better?

bad phrasing there I think

oh god what an AWFUL situation. i admire religious conviction and if anything i think at 22 i would have been more likely to abide by it, iykwim?
poor woman, she must have been very frightened, and how terrible for her family that they changed their minds too late.
it's amazing, isn't it, LVOC and lissie, how we all return to our religious backgrounds when the chips are down. i've just found myself (useless catholic) praying for those babies and their dad.

i have to comment on this as i was brought up as a JW although i rarely go anymore.

i find it hard to believe that it was a lack of blood that caused her death, in this day and age ALL hospitals have emergency plans put in place for JW patients and they are usually on high alert for when a JW woman goes into labour. please remember this is the sun reporting so facts will be distorted.

JW are offered blood salvage machines, they can store their own blood if they want, they are offered other medications which work much faster than a blood transfusion, i know this because when i had to have a caesarian with dd that was what was on offer at the time, the hospital Should have had these precautionary measures in place.

it is very very sad, this happened to a friend of mine, she got into difficulties, straightaway the hospital liason commitee (every hospital has one by arrangement with the JW) kicked into place, the anesthetist informed the husband that no matter now much blood they pumped into my friend -it wouldnt help because they couldnt stop the injury that caused the blood loss in the first place. the hospital did not have a salvage machine and they sent a courier to get one, but it wouldnt have worked, my friend hemmoraged and died

her husband has sucessfully sued the hospital trust and the anesthetist was a witness for him.

this is very very sad, but we dont know the whole facts.

Can I just add that people do die even if they do accept blood transfusions. Nobody knows whether she would have lived even if she had one. People make choices about their treatment all the time, unfortunately when JWs make a choice regarding their treatment they are always put in a bad light. I feel very sorry for the family and appreciate that it must be a very difficult time for them.

my friend is a jw and we've just been chatting about this. she tells me that lots of hospitals have new machines which can 'suck up the blood' wash it and re-use it a bit like a dialysis machine. this way they are re-using their own blood and the implication of transfusions is lost. lots of jw's have bought these expensive machines for the hospitals to use. she also said that the headlines are never to be trusted and she was sure that emma didn't die for not having a transfusion and that there were many more un told of issues with this birth. people should get the whole story beofre they make any judgemental comments. of course we all feel for the family and the twins, maybe and just maybe she didn't die becasue she didn't have the transfusion early enough. we just don't know we are not the medical proefssion.

lissie - hugs all round

This is so tragic.
When you tick a box and sign a consent form, you usually dont think you sign your life away, you tick because that is what your faith says and you agree in principle. If somebody had the presence of mind, were given the form and told: If you dont have this transfusion you will die, the outcome may be different, it is real, and not just a hypothetical scenario.

Maybe hospitals should just abolish consent forms, and it should be in the power of doctors to treat the patient the best way according to their professional judgement. Why even let people have the choice? We wouldnt get this problem at all, if the medical team were allowed to treat, and save patients without consent regards to method from patient or next of kin, or churhc.

It is too big a responsibility for family in a time of emotional distress to be presented with this.

yes thats true elanorsmum, JW are actively involved in raising money up and down the country for the blood salvage machines for ALL patients to use, in america bloodless surgery is quite common and also in europe, in britain the JW are invited to all the blood conferences and they give a presentation, my obstetrican who delivered dd is in favour of bloodless surgery and regularly meets with the hospital liason commitee, there are surgeons up and down the country also who operate using the machines and other medications because the future is bloodless surgery, its safer, there are no dangers of diseases this way and in the long run it works out cheaper for the nhs as every pint of blood donated has to be screened to check for diseases and doesnt keep forever, this cost a lot of money for the nhs.

yes thats true elanorsmum, JW are actively involved in raising money up and down the country for the blood salvage machines for ALL patients to use, in america bloodless surgery is quite common and also in europe, in britain the JW are invited to all the blood conferences and they give a presentation, my obstetrican who delivered dd is in favour of bloodless surgery and regularly meets with the hospital liason commitee, there are surgeons up and down the country also who operate using the machines and other medications because the future is bloodless surgery, its safer, there are no dangers of diseases this way and in the long run it works out cheaper for the nhs as every pint of blood donated has to be screened to check for diseases and doesnt keep forever, this cost a lot of money for the nhs.