Abortion limit should stay at 24 weeks - do you feel different about abortion after having a baby?

[TheDullWitch]

It is the 40th anniversary of the abortion act and I do feel that there is a generation of 20-somethings who take this right for granted and are doing nothing whilst others seek to chip it away.
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7059169.stm

I think it is about rights - until you are born at around 38 - 42 weeks, you don't have any

ah but expat I think society is wrong, wrong, wrong to disallow euthanasia.

By the reasonings you (and a lot of other people on this thread) are working on, there is a point at which abortion becomes infanticide. That moment is (at the moment) deemed to be about 20ish weeks because there is the odd very unusual case of a foetus surviving. I have posted the statistics which have been entirely overlooked by everyone (or at least not commented on). No matter. But at some point, we will be able to keep foetuses alive a bit earlier. And earlier. Eventually I am sure that we will come to a point where science's marvellous advances will be able to construct an entirely artificial womb to sustain a foetus without the need for a mother at all.

At that point, do we say that abortion should be disallowed entirely?

The abortion debate is always an emotive topic. And the rights and wrongs of it will be forever debated. However, even if made ilegal abortion would still happen. I would much rather they happen in a clean, safe environment and within the law.

No, it's about taking responsibility for every single one of your actions that you are in control of.

I agree Edam, esp about 'social reasons' - it's never as simple as 'social' - this expression covers such a raft of possibilities.

But we're talking about now, scarybee. Not about the future.

We're talking about viability in the here and now.

And this isn't set in stone. The legal limit used to be 28 weeks, after all.

I think the rights of the woman almost always supercede the rights of an unborn child (could add caveats galore but...)

I think my post was calm and polite, actually. I didn't call you a saddo or a nutter or even attribute madonna/whore to you, merely said it came to my mind in relation to words such as 'personal responsibility' or 'selfish'.

What I'd like to know is why people who object to abortion for 'social' reasons have against women who just don't want to have a baby? Why are social reasons less morally acceptable than medical?

And so I am inclined to agree that maybe the limit for abortion should be separate from the limit for viability, as MI has already suggested.

'No, it's about taking responsibility for every single one of your actions that you are in control of. '

Well, you do have a fair point, Milk.

I would have disagreed with you until about 6 years ago.

I remember a good friend of mine, who is gay and in his mid-50s, he saw a lot of his pals die of AIDS in the 80s.

And he'd not played it safe till AIDS came along.

I can't remember how we got n the subject of sex and its consequences.

And I just rememeber his taking a drag off his Marlboro and saying, 'Execpt is cases of rape, NO is always an option.'

A little light bulb sort of went off in my head at that moment, because you can apply that to a lot of things.

But self-control is a bitch [witch]

Scarybee, a couple of people (me included) have referred to your post but you are quite right, lots more have ignored it, sadly.

I am not sure that moral decisions should be made on the back of scientific advancements.

Er, so expat, what about women who used contraception that failed? Hmm? Or should we all abstain, just in case it fails?

But if you read the rest of the thread, and the one started by madamez the other day, and the other one that I can't remember that Spidermama commented on fairly early on, they're riddled with that type of language and those types of posts directed a people who express views other than allowing late - term abortions to continue.

But choosing to abort is also taking responsibility for your actions. You are making a decision to terminate. One that I guess is not easy to make and one that stays with you forever.

Women should never be judged and it makes me so angry when they are.

Yes sorry edam you did indeed.

How about doubling up contraception? Lots of people do.

Sex can mean pregnancy unless you or your partner are incapable of conceiving or having non-penetrative, homosexual or anal sex.

Hang on, so we should ALL double up on contraception?

Hmm, practical.

Most gay men I know have to both use impractical condoms EVERY single time they have sex for disease prevention.

So impractical, but pretty effective at avoiding what could be a most unpleasant alternative.

This is just my opinion, take it or leave it, for all I'm far from alone in it: I think the limit should be dropped.

But of course, right away that makes me someone who's being morally judgemental against anyone who has an abortion for 'social' reasons at whatever time.

Well, it's not on my conscience, thankfully, because that's got enough on it.

Unfortunately, it's getting pretty late and I need to go prepare some canapes for a party tomorrow night, so I must retire from this 'debate'.

I agree with cod, however, and others.

IMHO 24 weeks is far too late. There is no way that a 24 week baby is just a "mass of cells" it is clearly a baby with reflexes, nerve endings etc

I had a termination when I was 22. Wrong time, wrong person and I have never had any regrets.

I had ds when I was 38 and since then have had two miscarriages - but if I were able to fall pregnant again (at 46, now unlikely ) and CVS showed siginifcatn problems I would still be fully prepared to have another termination.

Before I had the first miscarriage, dh couldn't understand why I wouldn't consider a termination (the pregnancy was unplanned) as I had had one before and he couldn't understand why I was so adamant that I wouldn't even consider one. It was not that I had changed my pro-choice view - nor have I ever regretted my early termination - but it was a different time, different person, different circumstances. Even if it was unplanned, this was a baby I wanted - a sibling for ds. Sadly it was not to be

I don't know enough abut the 24 week limit and the circumstances when they happen close to that limit to comment, but in response to the title of this thread: no, I don't feel different in principle after having a baby - even if now, for a healthy baby I personally could nto cinsider it for myself. Individual circumstances change - and one circumstance is the very presence of that first baby!

I think my views on 'social abortions' haven't changed since becoming a mother. My views on abotion for reasons of disability have changed enormously (I have a child who is severely disabled, from a condition that couldn't be picked up antenatally, but is far more diffficult day to day than most cases of down's syndrome that I am familiar with- just to place it).

I have a number of friends who have had terminations for various social problems- have never had a problem with it at all, never batted an eyelid, hope I have been suportive- althiugh iwouldn;t do it, but whatever. I pray and hope that if a friend of mine has a termination for DS they don't tell tell me about it. I don't want to know; it would alter our friendship if I did know and for that reason I wish them well but don't want to be drawn into it.

what is the definition of social abortion?i live in ireland so not used to the termonoligy.i said earlier i am anti abortion with acceptions but i dont judge people who have them as im not in there situation

or reasons of non disability I guess- inconvenience. I don't have mucn of a problem with those, never have, have a nuber of friends who have gone through it (all early though); it;s the 'for reasons of disability' that has changed for me since becoming a mother.

What makes you sound judgemental, expat, is talking about the 'utter absence of personal responsibility'. Or the 'pursuit of one's own satisfaction'.

Which strikes me as a pretty odd line to take in terms of people having sex, since that's basically what it's all about. (Mutual satisfaction, I suppose, if you are well-mannered.)