Abortion limit should stay at 24 weeks - do you feel different about abortion after having a baby?

[TheDullWitch]

It is the 40th anniversary of the abortion act and I do feel that there is a generation of 20-somethings who take this right for granted and are doing nothing whilst others seek to chip it away.
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7059169.stm

Very interesting perspective, yurt1.

The rights of women do supersede the rights of foetuses. Or would you rather the 'rights' of sentimental strangers overrode the rights of a woman enduring an unwanted pregnancy to safeguard her own wellbeing?

Now I appreciate that this is a very emotive subject and that everyone has her own views on how she would deal with an unexpected pregnancy or a foetus with problems, but I make no apology for despising anti-abortion activists. They are ignorant, self-righteous sentimental scum, every last one of them. If you don't like abortions, don't have one, but leave other women alone.

And I say this as someone who decided long ago that I would not terminate a pregnancy unless the foetus was either totally unviable or would live a very short, pain-filled life if born naturally.

Must say I'm with expat on the doubling up. For years we used both condoms and the pill, because I really really did not want to get pg. Now I definitely want to wait a few years before considering no. 3 and tbh would be really upset to get pg again quickly. I don't want to take hormonal contraception any more - so we will be using condoms and, when my cycle's back (was fairly quick after ds1 despite exclusive bf and night feeding), the calendar method.

Personally I doubt very much that I could go through with a terminstion, but I'm as pro-choice - not 'pro-abortion', because who is, really? - as ever I was. That said, I am very, very uncomfortable indeed with the 24-week limit. I would also stop short of considering abortion to be a right as such; to me it is simply necessary that it is accessible to women, because of the potential horror of the alternative. IMO there is a genuine conflict between the rights of the woman and those of the foetus that will always be a hard and almost unsolvable thing and cannot/should not be got round by dehumanising the foetus. In this sense I also agree with Northener's post of 22:48:03. I do not assume all women are traumarised by termination, but I also strongly doubt that it is the easy way out for anyone.

the problem with lowering the abortion limit is that it can take as long as 7 weeks (maybe longer-i'm not sure) to organise through the nhs. this is why i don't think it could be any less than 18 weeks when realistically a lot of people don't find out they are pregnant until they are 10 weeks or maybe even more.

Well then I guess it can continue to strike you as odd, edam, my opinion is that the time limit should be reduced, not that abortion should be made illegal entirely.

What makes you judgemental, edam, is that you got personal with me over and over about this, but left other posters who stated pretty much the same thing well alone.

But you know, many people who posted on here said it best, these things are never reasonable or rational debates because the issue is too emotive.

And, at present, it's a moot point as well the limit has been kept.

expatinscotland: your post of Wed 24-Oct-07 22:26:05 is spot on.

madamez: "The rights of women do supersede the rights of foetuses"

that's debatable

i think becuase the NHS takes 7 weeks or more is a piss poor excuse. we should be looking at tthe systems both withing the family and external indicators - including length of time for NHS to process - and try our best to elimnate them.

along with education at school and at home there should be better systems in place to enable abortions to be done earlier.

Thank god we on here don't make the decisions, is all I can say.

What we are not privy to is all of the medical evidence that those who know better than us do, and they have left the limit at 24 weeks - still a rare occurance statistically anyway.

I'm not saying people shouldn't be able to debate it, even if they are ignorant of most of the pertinent facts, and that our government, actually has great amount of respect for, and confidence in women in this matter.

" "The rights of women do supersede the rights of foetuses" that's debatable "

Precisely my point - debateable by any and all, but the only people of influence deem that the rights of women do supercede those of a foetus.

"I'm not saying people shouldn't be able to debate it, even if they are ignorant of most of the pertinent facts"

MT don't walk in and call call people thick - tell us what the pertinant facts are - then we can debate them

I feel differently about it now, yes. I used to think it really just was about the woman's choice but nowadays I am kind of on the side of the baby, if it makes any sense to talk about sides.

I still do feel sympathy for women who feel they need to abort a child and I still think they should have the option but I am not easy in my mind about the whole thing

I feel this is a false debate, since 89% abortions are performed in the first 13 weeks of pregnancy. Only 2% of abortions are done after 22 weeks and there are done out of health concerned for either the woman or the baby. Let's not forget here that some pregnancies are very dangerous for the mother. Also some pregnancies cannot be aborted before 14 weeks, either because of the woman has not realised she was pregnant (4 weeks cycle + 2 weeks to realise + how many weeks to get two doctors' signatures for first-trimester abortions (why, why, why??). Sorry for the rant, but I do not believe social abortions exist and are just a way of belittling woman.

Also, sorry for the grammar but this subject does make me react!

i think if something seriously wrong with child then abortion ok at this time but just unwanted pregnancy i think 16 weeks latest

i think this as when pregnant yopu cant wait to get to your half way mark of 20 weeks you know the baby is small but perfectly formed i think it should be lowered

but then every one is entitled to do what they think is best for them as parents you begin to feel more strongly but for someone who may have fallen pregnant after rape for example and doesnt find out till late should not be forced to have the child so it is a tough debate

Nope, I feel exactly the same.

I never had an abortion, do not ever want to have one, but feel extremely strongly about having the right to have one.

Not wanting to add too much to an already long thread, I agree with everything MonkeyTrousers said. Spot on.

Couple of questions:

1. In the list of women's rights, which one exactly supersedes the foetus' right to live, other than the woman's right to live (ie, if there is a risk of the woman dying because of the pregnancy, I understand why doctors would opt for an abortion, but other than that - what other right supersedes the right to live for a human being?

2. The fact that the people of influence say that it is OK to abort a human life at 24 weeks, does not mean that it is OK or not. The people of influence in other countries say it is not OK at all, or it is OK at 12 weeks, or at 14, etc. Surely human life is the same across the world, or UK foetuses are not alive until 24 weeks, whereas in Spain the become to life at 12?

The experience of (unplanned) pregnancy has strengthened my view that women should be able to choose whether or not to continue with a pregnancy.

I never thought I could ever consider terminating a pregnancy, having had two full term pregnancies one ending in a neonatal death at 30 mins and the other a fresh stillbirth.

I then had a normal, albeit fraught pregnancy and delivery.

My fourth pregnancy I was ill throughout.

After the birth, the baby was ill and I had few resources physically and mentally. When she was 10 weeks old I missed a period!

The thoughts of having to cope with another disastrous pregnancy and at the same time care for a sick baby and an older child changed my wiew on termination of pregnancy. Despite having a very supportive husband I could not have continued with the pregnancy.

I wasn't pregnant, my cycle had just gone haywire,

I viewed termination differently from then.

As a midwife I have nursed quite a few ladies having terminations for fetal abnormalities, and no matter what the gestation, it is traumatic.

Being ignorant of the facts isn't the same as being thick Custy - you being the exception to that rule obvioulsy

Bonitamia:

1. What list are you taking about? The law on abortion tells us that a woman's rights supercede the rights of a foetus. If that law wasn't in place, women would still abort, exerting their inate natural right to preserve resources for offspiring they already had or other worse dilemmas.

2. No one is saying it is "OK". These are diffcult dilemmas that only women have to face. In explicity religious countries, they either have low threasholds or no rights for women in this matter. That's becasue religion's control demographics - almost perfectly so if you take into account the catholic churche's decision not to allow use of condoms in Africa' when AIDS is decimating the population, they still need the uptake; so they die young, so what - there are still lots of catholics. Same thinking in Islam and why women are controlled so much in that culture.

Religion's always seek to women's fertility through dogma or terror for political ends.

seek to control women's fertilty

MonkeyT,
You tell me what those women's rights are! I mentioned a "list" of women's rights because you and others mentioned them in the first place, so you must know what those rights are. I repeat the question: which right in particular, apart from the right to live of the mother, supersedes the foetuses right to live?

Laws are different in each country and not necessarily right. The whole reason of the debate is that some people believe the law is wrong.

Not just religion MT. Men in power seek to control women's fertility through dogma. Religion is just a reflection of that.

Gosh NoName, that must have been very hard to go through.

It depends when you believe that the foetus becomes a human being I suppose Bonita. If that isn't until birth then the only rights to consider are the woman's.

In answer to the OP - my feelings are unchanged since having my own children. I do think that the limit for 'social' reasons should be maybe 20 weeks. I think that's a reasonable amount of time to recognise the pregnancy, make a decision and get the grinding wheels of the NHS turning.