Abortion limit should stay at 24 weeks - do you feel different about abortion after having a baby?

[TheDullWitch]

It is the 40th anniversary of the abortion act and I do feel that there is a generation of 20-somethings who take this right for granted and are doing nothing whilst others seek to chip it away.
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7059169.stm

Re OP, no, my views have not changed after having a baby. Am still Pro-Choice.

t's not just girls being embarrassed to visit FPC, it's parent neglecting their duty to protect their children by teaching them about sex/contraception and then removing them from Sex Ed.

ABSOLUTLEY AND AMEN

it MY responsability as a bloody PARENT - not the chuffin school

sadly most parent devolve.ignore this resonsability IME

im a mother im still pro-choice. i dont make sweeping generalisations about "generation of 20-somethings"

abortion is a private individual matter.
not state
not society
not faith community

Absolutely - used to work with women having abortions (clinically participating in them)- couldn't do it now. Still believe in pro choice but things have come a long way since 24 week limit was introduced (reduction from 28 weeks) and in view of increasingly early foetal viability, I think it is time for a further reduction,. Must admit that prior to having children (or having the 12 week scan with my first child even), I wouldn't have given this debate a second thought.

I'm still pro-choice - though I don't think I could have one now. Though I think it's one of those things where you couldn't possibly know how you would react or what you would do unless you were actually in a given situation.

It did upset me a little, reading about the terminations due to cleft-palate. My Mum had a cleft-palate and that was sorted out 60 years ago and you really wouldn't know. I just think that if they could sort it 60 years ago then today it must be fairly simple to correct.

I am horrified by stories I've read about babies that were aborted at 24 weeks surviving the process and being left to die or even having to be adopted.

The whole thing makes me very sad - but I am pro-choice.

Abdsolutely agree spookthief re the idea of women who are deserving and undeserving of abortion.

And more than 1 abortion does NOT MEAN you didn't use/don't know about contraception. NO contraception is 100% reliable, except abstinence.

Just to explain myself a little more - sad for the women who find themselves in such a position - I'm sure it's not an easy one to be in - as well as sad for those babies that do survive.

Of course no contraception is !00% foolproof. But I know that if contraception were used more widely, we would not see as many abortions.

I am pro choice before any assumptions are made but I want to see the rate of abortion reduced. I think it's v. traumatic for women to have to a) make that choice and b) go through it.

And it's all very well saying it's the parents who need to educate their children about sex, contraception etc but it's a vicious circle - if their parents weren't open about it, chances are the next generation of parents weren't open about it.

This subject should be part of biology classes at school.

I'm FERVENT about this subject. Can you tell?

Yes - I have been involved in a case where the baby survived - for a hour or so only. The baby was about 22 weeks and perfectly formed, fingernails etc etc. It was years before I had children but it has always stuck in my mind (there was no reason for the termination other than mother not wanting it and not getting around to doing something about it earlier - mother was very young). Since I have had children, it has haunted me more as a memory.

how very harrowing for you

Men should also be very much part of this issue. They should know exactly what is what when it comes to abortion, conception, contraception.

It's women's rights as to whether to have an abortion but I think men should also understand the enormity and responsibility of pregnancy/unprotected sex/when contraception fails.

I reckon there's a huge information gap that needs to be sorted.

I'm still pro-choice, although as my DD3 has Downs, and I refused an amnio, some have made the assumption I would be staunchly pro-life.
Having children has not changed my views on abortion, but working as a gynae nurse made me see how much more difficult a late termination is. It would have to be a child with a severe, incompatible with life, condition that would have made me consider termination past the 12 week mark, when the only option is delivery of foetus. As for early termination, its a necessary evil, and women need to be cared for safely by non-judgmental staff. Otherwise its a return to the dark ages, where women were exploited. A woman desperate for a termination will always find someone to "help" her, whilst these people will be lining their own pockets.

I think the family planning sevice in this country is a joke, and has to be at least partly accountable for the uk having the highest rate of teenage pregnancies.

I contact them last week to arrange to have the coil fitted - I was told the earliest appointment was 2 weeks time - and that this appointment would be to discuss having it fitted, I would then have to make another appointment - probably another 2 week wait to have it fitted.

You dont have to make an appointment to discuss having a baby, or wait 4 weeks to be given the "go ahead"... It really is a disgrace.

I am pro-choice, but don't think I would ever have an abotion (but not sure anyone can say that unless they are put in a situation).

My friend was raped, and found out she was pregnant at about 18weeks. Her periods were irregular, and as soon as she realised, she went straight to the doctors. It would have been a 4week wait.

The problem is where is the line with what is a social reason. After all, this was a social reason, and she went through with it.

i think the limit should be dropped for social reasons.

i felt the same before i had kids.

24 weeks is just too late, IMO.

i couldn't ever have an abortion - when i fell pregnant unexpectedly and was single, i knew it just wasn't an option for me (i miscarried at 10 weeks, however) - but am pro choice.

i don't understand who Britain has a limit that is so much longer than the rest of the EU.

i also think the limit should be lowered.

expat, that goes back to the question I asked earlier - what's so bad about 'social' reasons? Are women who just don't want a baby right now somehow less deserving than women who are told their babies have medical conditions?

'Are women who just don't want a baby right now somehow less deserving than women who are told their babies have medical conditions? '

At 24 weeks? Well, IMO, yes, they are less deserving.

That's SIX months along.

I think the root of the problem isn't even about abortion.

It's about the utter absense of personal responsibility in society, now long past its first generation of cultivation - to say nothing of social responsiblity.

And that harks back to custy's point about parents who can't be bothered to teach their kids not just about sex and contraception, but about far more tricky things like self-respect, personal and social responsibility, duty, honour, being in touch with one's conscience - or even having one at all - to say nothing of contraception.

And so we talk about 'freedom of choice', when really, from the time so many are even the remotest self-aware, there is none of this as there is only one value cherished above all: oneself and the pursuit of one's own satisfaction.

For once (and once only mind ), I agree with you, expat.

I cannot think where my local FPA is. I don't know. I don't know how I would find out. I remember when I used to use them (when I was too poor to afford contraception and didn't want to go to my GP for various reasons) they were only open until 5pm which made it very difficult for me to get to.

If it were easier to access contraceptive services in the UK, I know we wouldn't have as many abortions.

I also think there is something about the mealy-mouthed british attitude to sex which hinders people being upfront about using contraception in casual sexual situations

Medical advances mean that smaller babies can survive. The limit should be lowered to 18 weeks max. If you haven't made up your mind by then, tough. There has to be a balance beteen the 'rights' of the mother and of the unborn child. IMHO 18 weeks, or 17 to be on safe side ('cos dates are often only estimated)should be the limit.

A study on the reasons for late abortions was referenced further down the thread. Common reasons included not realising you were pregnant until late in the day; problems with relationships (parents/partner)/uncertainty about what to do, and so on and so on. None of those strike me as particularly evil or deserving of condemnation.

I'm really wary of comments about 'lack of personal responsibility' or 'selfishness' in relation to abortion. Seems to me that's just saying women seeking abortion are bad and must be punished. The old madonna/whore thing. And if you do happen to think women seeking abortions are somehow lacking in moral fibre, then surely they would be the last people you would want to force into unwanted motherhood, anyway?

Completely agree, SC

And I've asked this question before on another thread but no one answered it directly: when does it cross the line between abortion and infanticide?

How can a society that allows infantcide - but disallows euthanasia for terminal illness at the patient's request or the death penalty (NO, for the thousandth time I am against the death penalty) say it is humane and civilised?

If human beings are viable at 24 weeks, then is this where allowing abortion at this time infanticide?

How is is somehow that anyone who finds it wrong to allow abortions that late for 'social' reasons is automatically a madonna/whore saddo who thinks all women who have abortions are morally degenerate?

See, as many others have pointed out in this and other threads, this is why so many don't get into those threads, because right away they get jumped on for being zealots, against women, even called fuckwits or nutters.

And yes, I have read the entire thread and its links.

I see it as infanticide because human beings are viable at this stage. Not 100%, but not nill, either.