David Cameron's speech - did anyone think he could just have turned the polls round?

[TheDullWitch]

That striding about without notes business was quite impressive. I did get bored though.

I cannot believe how bitter and accusing the comments on this thread are. As I've said before I support the Torys and so I support the idea of private education. HOWEVER, I can't afford to send my children to private school which does not bother me, make me bitter and twisted, or make me feel hard done by. I just get on with my life and I know that my kids will be able to succeed in what they do if we give them the right support through their lives just like my Mum & Dad did. The whole thing about Eton being on your cv these days is very wide of the mark. Don't get me wrong, the old boy's network does still exist but not to the extent it used to. Most people are getting to where they do by sheer hard work not by relying on the school they left 20 odd years ago.

Nimnom I agree- I love having political ding-dongs with anyone who can argue rationally but this "all tories are lying elitist shites" or" all labourites are tub-thumping commies" type b-shit is not constructive & VERY juvenile.

Supporters of all parties come in many shades of Blue/Red/Yellow/Green & we all have different views of life & how it should be usually coloured by our own experiences & where we are now. I don't judge someone on their political views/background/choice of newspaper & similarly I don't expect to be judged by others.

What you do/how you vote doesn't make you a "good" or "bad" person but treating posters who don't share your views with such vitriol & contempt, is unnaceptable.

It makes me fear for the children of such people as they will grow up with a very black & white view of the world instead of enjoying learning about the differences & appreciating them. Agreeing to disagree Ithink is what it's called?

'nuff said-sorry to rant!

Anyone listen to pmq's - DC was on fire. Watch out Gordy!!!

suey2 - what form of discrimination am i not against then?
I'm not sure - I haven't mentioned Eton at all. not even once. I have no problem with etonians, have friends who are etonians who i love.
i am totally against public school and private school and faith school, becasue i think they are socially divisive, and ideally all our children shoudl be able to mix and learn together, regardless of background / religion / location / parents bank balance. but i don't ever disciminate against people becasue they went to Eton or oxbridge. So I'm not really sure what you're getting at here?

I DO judge people's views, I think if you say you are a tory, i despise you, as i think this means you are self preservationist, not in favour of redistribution, and in favour of policies - such as private education and private healthcare and low taxes, limited welfare state etc - which I think perpetuate the rich/poor divide, leading to incredible wealth for the privileged view and really appalling poverty if you are born into the wrong family and have not the means to get yourself out of it - whether that be due to not having the education, the support from your family, the standard of health, the role models, etc etc... So I make no apology if you view my judging the views of the Tory party as 'discriminating' against members of it.

also Suey2 - do you accept that Eton is a really fantastic spring board into a given career for the tiny number of people who get to go there? Do you accept that had your DH NOT gone to Eton, he would have had MORE work to do to get where he is today?

Or are there no benefits at all to going to Eton? In which case, why is it so expensive and sought after?

I repeat, I am not discriminating against your dh, or his fellow etonians, i really have no problem with them - but you have to accept having Eton on your CV really does help. A lot.

You know, it could be expensive and sought after because it is a bloody awesome school?

My DH and I are and interesting case - he went to Eton, worked hard, got in to Oxford, and now has a very successful career in the City. I went to a shitty comprehensive, worked hard, got in to Oxford, and now have a very successful career in the City.

We come from completely different backgrounds, and had completely different schooling, but we've both ended up in the same place. I know how hard he worked, both at school and university and now, and I would be outraged if it were suggested that he got where he is because of his school, just as I am when people suggest that I only got into Oxford because of state school quotas (I'm not joking).

He is also pretty embarrassed when he has to reveal where he went to school, as he is worried that people judge him on it, without getting to know him first. Isn't that just as bad as judging someone on any other superficial criteria.

If you visited Eton you'd see exactly why people want to send their sons there - it is the most amazing school. The facilities are incredible, and the teaching brilliant, but most of all, it is one of the most open, inclusive, non-judgemental places I've ever seen (oh, the irony!) There are pupils there from all over the world, from all religions, from all backgrounds (including lots of scholarships). They are taught to be polite, well adjusted, confident, self-sufficient young men.

If I can afford it, I'm sending my sons there - not because of what it will do for them in the future, but because of the wonderful time they'll have in the present.

Well said Penny

"really appalling poverty if you are born into the wrong family "

Sorry going to be REALLY inflammatory here but in the UK today we do NOT have real povery thank God ( & no thanks to any of the politicians of either party)
Horrible substandard housing yes,drug problems yes, terrible dysfunctional family set-ups yes but the support systems ARE there (not enough & not all the time granted) but when you look at the daily grinding poverty of some third world countries we are NOT poor.

Just MVHO

I know a few Old Etonions and without exception they are the most charming, kind, solicitous, well mannered and intelligent men I have ever met. They are beautifully educated and it's an amazing school.

Thanks nimnom. It just gets my goat when people feel like they can judge what a person is like because of where he went to school.

Eton is the only school I've ever heard of which not only has a school chaplain, it has a school rabbi and a school imam, as well as numerous other non-religious pastoral guidance.

This is a shcool which does an incredible job of turning out bright, confident, well-adjusted men. Is it any surprise they go on to be successful? But then they and the school have to deal with the accusation that they are only successful because of the name of their school on their CV. It's incredibly offensive if you ask me.

I would have given my left arm to go to a school like that. Where I went to school I had no facilities, was taught in cold, leaking temporary classrooms, with crappy outdated textbooks. I had no positive guidance - in fact, the teachers thought it was acceptable for people to make fun of me for being bright. They even told me not to apply to Oxford because it was only for "posh people" and when I got in they told me I would hate it, and I wouldn't have any friends. Was it any wonder I was in tears on my first day at university, absolutley terrified, until I met some people and realised that we were all the same, that nobody gave a toss where you went to school, we'd all made it here by the same standards.

Why are people so afraid to praise a good school - at least David Cameron isn't embarrassed about it.

I agree Chocolatedot - if you're looking for smug, arrogant public school tossers, I could point you in the direction of some other schools, but Eton isn't one of them. It's incredible how it's just the name which people cling to, without actually knowing anything about it.

PCSMUM .. how on earth do you get through the day despising 40% of the population?

But thanks for the heads-up. I shall avoid you in future.

This is my first post on this thread but I have to say that my only problem with Eton is that it's not co-ed. I just cannot bring myself to consider any single-sex establishments. I think if Wellington College can do it, they all can.

I must, however, take issue with BB's statement re poverty. There is very real poverty in this country. Not just bad housing or lack of material items but parents struggling to feed their children from wk to wk. Single mothers and those newly arrived in this country are often the worse hit earning less than min wage. (job advertised at mw but is pro rata so the hourly rate actually works out less)

I've seen it first hand. Thankfully in a professional capacity rather than personal. There is a whole section in society, mainly in London who are living hand to mouth every day.

I have to add though, Penny; If Eton had to cope with the same social problems that an average East London comp does then it wouldn't manage to be so nurturing. By that I mean they aren't starting with boys who have never been exposed to books or parks or travel say.

Well, PCSMUM, I would check out the
"How will you vote if there is a general election" thread
to find out all those on mumsnet you despise (in case you can't tell they are Tories in general conversation).

I know cushioncover, you're right, and I'm not trying to say that it's a perfect system - I mean, you do still have to pay for it!

Of course there are major problems with schools in this country, my own being a good example.

All I'm trying to say is that there's no need to judge or penalise people who were lucky enough to go to a great school. I think the way to make things more equal should be to drag the schools at the bottom up, not pull the schools at the top down.

I agree PennyBenjamin.

I also think that discussing where a politician goes to school is a waste of time and irrelevant. Talking about their education policy/spending plans/record of achievement is surely the way to have a political discussion about education.

CC I'm not doubting there are those in this country for whom life is a struggle, but we DO have a welfare state & we DO have some wonderful charities doing fantastic work to support many families.

I too have worked in these so called poverty stricken areas & I'm sorry they don't compare to the real slums of India & egypt where if you don't work/beg/steal you die simple as that.And even if you do work he survival rate for children & elders is horrific due to malnourishment & bad hygiene.

where a politician went to school (sorry)

PCSmum I am a tory because I believe in social mobility, meritocracy and a positive work ethic. I don't believe there should ever be the situation where someone has more money when on benefits than if they were working. I believe in the NHS and state education. I believe that the labour party have not improved the NHS despite the increased funding. I believe that they have dumbed down state education because of their policies and reduced social mobility. They want to treat us all the same, but we are not. I don't believe that 50% of school leavers should go to uni. Perfect example. We all have different talents, not all people are academic. This push to uni is stopping many people from finding a job appropriate for their drive and their talents, independent of what family upbringing they have had. The increase of numbers of children getting 3 As at A level is not a good thing- the whole point is to be able to differentiate the academic from the non-academic.
The most negative effect on social mobility is now known to be the abolition of grammar schools instituted by barbara castle. (labour) I know there were problems with the grammar school system which is why I agree with DC- have the academies, but stream so that children of similar abilities are taught together. I don't believe that any child is helped by teaching in classes of mixed ability.

If that makes me scum in your eyes, then so be it.

Didn't Labour introduce the minimum wage and Working families tax credit so that work did indeed pay?

Would you like to see these further increased/strengthened - or benefits cut?

And in comprehensive schools, many classes are set. The ones that aren't (certainly higher up the school) tend to be the ones where there aren't enough children taking that option to make setting viable.

The Tory party is not planning to abolish the minimum wage. As for benefits they are planning to cut benefit only for those who are offered work they are capable of doing and refuse to take it up. This is theoretically the case now but rarely seems to happen.

working families tax credit and the minimum wage are great policies- why is there the assumption that the tories will take them away?
I totally disagree with the raid on our pensions, the mismanagement of the NHS and whatever you say, education. I guess we have different experience and information re the latter. From what i understand, there has been a reduction in special needs schools and the insistence that pupils are not expelled or suspended. These kids are being taught in mainstream education for the detriment of themselves and of their classmates.
The debacle of the new medical graduates appointments is a scandal. As are the arbitary targets in the NHS which make no emphasis on clinical need or outcome. It also disempowers those professionals within the NHS who are best placed to make clinical judgements on the basis of need. Thus an atmosphere of feeling undervalued and disrespected that many professionals working in the NHS complain of.
I don't dislike all of the policies labour has brought in. Just the majority of them

I read recently that if Income Tax didn't kick in until someone earned say hypothetically 25k then the Govt wouldn't have to mess about giving people money back in income support unless they earned under a certain amount, thought it was an interesting comment.

I think if the fat cat 'non doms' are earning money in this country they should be paying tax in this country too. Apparently Tesco are guilty of paying very little tax too (don't know how though).