So explain to me how you & I benefit from the rise in immigration

[contentiouscat]

Please explain to me who except the already rich employers (and translators) are benefitting - im not trying to be contentious I would just like to understand.

They are cheap labour therefore why should a british employer pay a decent wage i.e enough for you and I to pay our mortgage when they can get an immigrant willing to live 20 to a house in substandard conditions. So wages will go down.

They dont pay much tax because they are on minimum wage plus are sending a lot of their wages out of the country.

They are entitled to healthcare and as this report says are costing the police money.
news.uk.msn.com/Article.aspx?cp-documentid=6167846

I also read yesterday that european immigrants are entitled to tax credits for their children who still live abroad (wtf), hospitals, police, school have to employ translators - of course this is all coming out of the piggy bank you and I have paid into for years and will continue to.

I just dont get it - SORRY!

I think it's misdirected anger, Icing.

I save that for the real scroungers: fat cats on corporate welfare to pay nary a bean in tax.

I guess i get my 'get on with attitude' because i am used to being around people who have well got on with it. Like my mum, earlier in the thread i explained how she coped. Then there is my dp who 25 years ago was told he would never have a standing job by doctors after a serious motorbike accident. He was in work this morning at 3.30am and isn't home yet after being on his feet all day with sitting down for probably half an hour if he's lucky. He comes home in agony from his leg but he knows if he doesn't get the job done, his business is buggered because he is trying to do 3 peoples jobs at the moment (one on holiday and one off sick plus his own job).

It probably is misdirected anger, i guess i hate society's attitude nowadays. Pull the ladder up and sod the rest attitude...

IcingOnTheCake to me it sounds like you have reason to be annoyed. but your comment about people taking shit jobs it OTT
when dh was out of work. he was slightly stuck as he doesn't drive(epilepsy) he also has heavy commitments at home due to us having a severly disabled daughter. how very dare he want to get a job in the town he lives in. the jobs are there as masses of building work but......(can't be bothered to go there again)
at the end of the day he has to work to pay the bills. he can't do that cleaning toilets for the min wage.

I realised my post was a bit in contradiction with my previous posts about the importance of workers being paid properley and cheap exploititive labour being bad for both the exploited labourer and those trying to compete and pay a decent wage.

BUT if you read what i wrote v carefully you will see that i was comparing popular perception. I do not think the Traditional British Workman is always useless etc etc - but there are so many bad experiences and so many anecdotes of cowboy operators 9and i think that reputable tradespeople are victims of cowboys, too - for undercutting, and giving the whole trade a bad name). I specifically said that it was a generalised and stereotyped perception. But it is a reason why people are prepared to give Polich workers a chance. Whether you like it or not. POland is renowned for the quality of carpentry and joinery. I daresay that there will be a slew of POlish workers who are also useless cowboys. But the ones doing up my neighbours house are working really hard, are really cheerful, work all day, and according to my experienced-in-these-things neighbour, doing a fabulous high quality job.

Competition isn't purely down to cash price. Reliability etc is important too - and whereas i have no wish to see any reputable English tradespeople suffer, some could shrpen up their act to keep the competition equal!

I think that Britain has far too much of an excuse culture. People who have been long term on benefits should be forced to do part time community work/ training in return for their benefits. Free childcare should be provided to make it possible for single mothers with children who are all over a year old to work on a community scheme. Sitting on your backside and claiming benefits should not be an option.

The difference between many immigants and native British people on benefits is that they are prepared to take the jobs that no one wants to do.

"People who have been long term on benefits should be forced to do part time community work/ training in return for their benefits."

I know it's "religion" based (which some may not approve of) - but does running the cubs and sunday school (the latter at a church with over 100 children attending every sunday) count? And running in Marathons with the money raised going to charity too?

'Free childcare should be provided to make it possible for single mothers with children who are all over a year old to work on a community scheme.'

I disagree entirely unless the fathers of these children are also made to do community service if they are on benefits unless they are paying maintenance.

Why are we singling out lone parents and not targeting the partner who swanned off and left it to the state to support his/her children?

And it's not that immigrants are taking only jobs that Brits don't want to do. It's that very, very often, immigrants are coming here to live in very crowded conditions - having left their families at home - and so their cost of living is far lower than many working poor families in the UK.

so much in your post is so ignorant and ill thought out, contentios scat.

not only is immigration fantastic in the way that our children get to grwo up with people from all over the world, but we also have innumerable jobs that would be vacant were it not for people form other countries. I'm just going to do the 4 houses nearest to mine, but I could do more, I would really really like you to tell me which if these we should do without, and which of these we do not benefit from:

1. congalese cleaner in local police station
2. nigerian teacher
3. sudanese university lecturer
4. ukrainian librarian
5. french civil servant (health and safety executive)
6. south american midwife
7. English teacher.
8. jamaican care assitant in school for disabled children
9. jamaican care taker of our local primary school.
10. indian consultant in geriatric psychiatry
11. indian consultant in neonatal medicine

now can we please hear the arguments as to why all these people should 'p*ss of home'and why you think you are not benefitting from them being here?

i feel so happy to live in a community like this, our street is brilliant, friendly, we all share, look out for each other, and have a great street party in the summer!

sorry which post said they had to piss of home?. I must have missed that one.
cheap shot to call someone ignorant just because their view isn't the same as yours

The Nazis made the Jews into scapecoat for all for the problems that Germany had suffered. They used it as justification for murdering 6 million people.

Its easier to blame the Poles for not having a job, than taking responsiblity for your self. I think that people who advocate sending all the immigrants home are similar to Nazis.

People who complain about immigiants taking their jobs are often lazy good for nothings.
A lot of them are unemployable either because of

a) Attitude
b) Not being prepared to retrain
c) Being over picky about what jobs they apply for.

realytired I have reported your post and will now parp this thread

England has always been a country with lots of immigrants, sometimes in waves, and sometimes in less noticable ways. It is fairly likely that pretty much everyone has some immigrant blood not that far back in their family history. Of course there can be issues when new arrivals settle, but economic history shows great benefits from immigartion, and given the fall in our birthrate we will actually need more people of working age to support all of our pensioners.

Fact is Britain needs young people. Aging population so we need young workers so that we can look after the pensioners.

Immigration is not without it's problems but there are huge benefits and many many work for the good of this country and damn hard too.

Ruty, I'm talking about New Malden, not Spain.

oh ok MP. [don't know why i thought you were in spain]

2shoes, why would you report Reallytired's post? She has an opinion, that's all, rather extremely put but an opinion all the same. And actually yes people do go around looking for scapegoats in society, certainly those who trot out the old chestnut that the immigrants do shoddy work and are all unqualified.

how many people running businesses are actually one time immigrants do you think?
a lot. because they have that entrepreneurial spirit and they are keen to build a better life for them and their families.

my parents came to London in the 70's from Ireland. My dad set up an engineering company which is now one of the biggest and most successful in the UK.

can i get a window cleaner? no. keep getting them and then they don't turn up. i wish i could find a polish one. they are reliable and would do a good job i know.

a few years ago you would wait years for a builder or plumber to actually show up. they do now - because they know at last there is some competition from the Eastern Europeans.

thank goodness for immigration.

What I don't understand on this thread is the tar all people with the same brush attitude

SOME British builders are cowboys, I know thata s my dad is a builder and will happily admit it

SOME non-British builders are cowboys

We need to start looking at people as individuals rather than antional labels.

poeple can sit there all day and say go home or whatever, but for many immigrants this IS home now, and has been for a good while. Disucss whether plans to control future migration (both ways, f we dont take then we cant send either, its only fair- not sure who is going to pay the pensions of all those old people returning fro Spain / frnace etc without the immigrant pensions contributions etc)- but for the poeple here, they are home now. THIS is their homew. And don't judge people because of someone you know- jusgdge people on themselves. When you look for a builder (say) look fro one with good references- whether British or Polish or Outer Mongolian. That way the cowboys get ushed out and the genuines get work.

sorry dont have time to read all this yet

but

i think its more about what someone contributes than whether they were born here...

if folk are here and prepared to work then they should have access to the services etc

enough lazy ass locals living off state who contribute nought and are proud of it
as there is tight ass rich folks who think the taxes are just for the little people
sort them both out

it is human nature to move and seek better try different

there is lack of basic services though on lots of levels and english classes etc..as police lately etc have been saying

to the op we dont benefit directly we foot the bill cause thats teh way it works in this society
amuses me to think if it was a load of politicans meeja types lawyers being challenged for their jobs would it be thought to be something to be un-regulated uncontrolled ting...

What would the country be like if there were no immogrants? If all citizens living in England were English? That is a genuine question.

IMMIGRANTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry, didn't realise you needed a degree in spelling to go on mn!

Syrely an immoggrant is a cat who moved in without asking?

(The wink was for IOC so she knew I was gently teasing rather than taking the piss)