So explain to me how you & I benefit from the rise in immigration

[contentiouscat]

Please explain to me who except the already rich employers (and translators) are benefitting - im not trying to be contentious I would just like to understand.

They are cheap labour therefore why should a british employer pay a decent wage i.e enough for you and I to pay our mortgage when they can get an immigrant willing to live 20 to a house in substandard conditions. So wages will go down.

They dont pay much tax because they are on minimum wage plus are sending a lot of their wages out of the country.

They are entitled to healthcare and as this report says are costing the police money.
news.uk.msn.com/Article.aspx?cp-documentid=6167846

I also read yesterday that european immigrants are entitled to tax credits for their children who still live abroad (wtf), hospitals, police, school have to employ translators - of course this is all coming out of the piggy bank you and I have paid into for years and will continue to.

I just dont get it - SORRY!

Poor management:

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7004581.stm

I do agree that UK restidents should get first pick on jobs in the NHS. It seems pointless for someone to train for 7 years, get into debt then be told they can't get a job in the field they are trained in because they have all been snapped up by people overseas.

While i always thought i didn't have a problem with immigrants, i realised this morning that i do a little bit. In Asda the checkout woman was scanning my shopping and says to me "what is this?," "They are apples" i reply. So she puts them through as braeburn apples. "Those are cox's," i said. I get a confused look. "Not apples?" she says. "Yes apples. Cox apples, not braeburn, you just put them through as braeburn." She continues to tell me she doesn't understand and after a few minutes of her pressing countless buttons she presses the buzzer for someone to come.

At this point i felt like saying just leave it as braeburn but then i thought why should i pay more for something because Asda choose to employ immigrants and don't train them properly. Then she put my peaches through as nectarenes which are more expensive. The whole me trying to explain started all over again and lets just say the woman waiting behind me moved isles.

This then got me thinking on the way home of all the times i have got very annoyed and no service because the shop assistant doesn't understand what i am saying. In some jobs immigrants can get away with not speaking alot of English but in some it is vital so they shouldn't be employed if they don't understand the customers or the product they are selling.

In that case, your problem should be with the company who employed a cashier who doesn't have a good enough grasp of language to do her job appropriately. I don't agree that Brits should get first choice at jobs since we are now Europeans and as such have a choice where we work (though of course our knowledge of other languages is piss poor on the whole, which restricts our access to overseas jobs) Jobs should be won on merit. If others are competing for a job here and we want it bad enough then maybe we should raise our game.

PSM - your street sounds fab.

Sorry, that should have been PSC

but backtobasics......I've met lots of very English girls on checkouts who wouldn't know the difference between a banana and a grape .

ROFL at cats with passports

So have i, but at least they understand you when you say that isn't a banana it's an orange!

Maybe you could go elsewhere for your shopping?

Although it seems a bit odd to train more people than you need for a job, actually it bring great benefits, because when you are selecting you can make sure you get the best candidate, rather than the only candidate. Many hospitals this year have recruited to training posts that have been empty for years, which can only be good. Oh course it's not great for those who don't get through the application process, but then they also have the option to finish their training elsewhere in Europe. Of the 14,000 junior doctors who didn't get places this year 10,000 were from overseas, so it's not as if they get "first pick" - at present it's an equal playing field.

well i wouldn't know the difference between a braeburn and a cox's apple. i expect braeburn came up first alphabetically on her till. but then i'm an immigrant so what the hell would i know?

For me it is the language and culture thing more than anything....
when I go and get a paper and the guy behind the counter just grunts and holds out his hand whilst chatting away in another language, then I go down the street and women in Hijabs mow me down without so much as an excuse me, then go to the supermarket and again, the polish checkout woman can't say as much as a hello, how are you doing because I do go there everyday, then I go to work and try to contact an african social worker whose's grasp of english is so bad that despite huge amounts of patience on my part, I can't make her understand what information I need about something very serious indeed, then I go to someones house with a translator and the visit takes twice as long and I suspect that the interpreter is putting her own opinions across rather than my direct questions and then I get back to the office and everyone is speaking punjabi, not that I mind but I'm not included in the conversation, I spend the rest of the afternoon trying to get a document translated into somalian. On the way home I pass the A&E department and the sign is only in Arabic. It doesn't feel like I'm in Britain anymore.

2shoes, really tireds post was really good, and i would have thought would wake you up to how dangerous it is to make sweeping negative generalisations about groups of people based on anything they cannot control, their race, religion, age, number of legs! etc. its so dangerous, and it is ignorant, and sorry if no one had siad 'piss off home' but the OP Isn't exactly welcoming.

LAdylush - yes, my street is lovely, I'm looking out the window at it now. I am so glad I don't have to share my space with teeny minded bigots, but instead with really proactive cool people who get on and share, and I pride myself on being worldly, and understanding other cultures, and blah blah, but I still learn from other people, every day, even the kids. My kids know so much more about eid, than i did even at university! and divali is their absolute favourite - its also mine as the cooking is so fab!

o i don't know, when will we learn as a nation, that the people who have emigrated here are what make our country so great, not the moaners and the wingers who stand around the supermarket whispering and bitching about the checkout girl is too polish to understand them. The hilarious thing is, give her 6 months, she'll be fluent, and happily so. Unlike the good old natives, many of whom can only speak one language - thier own - and have no intention of branching out and learning another.

And still none of you anti-immigrationers answered me about which one of the people in my list are not useful?

what a dire way to judge people anyway.

And difers, i have 2 local shops, one of them run by an east ender and his family. They grunt and ignore me and carry on talking to each other in a language i don't understand when i go into buy my paper.

when i go to the turksih shop tho, to get turksih spinach bread (delicious when warm, another perk of where i live!) i get 'hello darling, how are you, the baby she is big now, she like a lolly pop?' etc, which, yes, even though his english is a bit broken (still miles better than my turkish!), he still conveys niceness, warmth and a welcome to me and my kids. what more could i want? are you seriously saying we should chuck him out as it isn't fair that an english person couldn't get his job? how totally ridiculous.

I didn't say I wanted anyone chucked out. The OP asked how is immigration benfitting her. Immigration is beneficial but it does get to the point when a day becomes twice as hard because no one speaks english well enough to communicate with each other properly. I heard often how immigration is benefical but there are downsides to mass immigration, mostly which are never discussed because of the pro immigration media.

All the people you mention are great but what about the sex traffickers? Gangmasters? What about the Africian children who arrive here and just go missing? What about people driving illegally and without insurance in this country because they are here illegally anyway? What about the lack of housing? It's not rocket science is it. More people = less availability = higher prices. What about future pensions for low paid workers? What about higher taxes to pay for translators and additional specialist services aimed at immigrants? What about the reality that the public sector in some areas tighten up their criteria so only the most desperate get any service because they haven't the money for everyone.

If I'm a bigot for worrying about these issues then I am happy to be called a bigot.

I feel sad that many of the posts on this thread are out right racist. It is next to impossible to get a job in the UK if you cannot speak English.

Why should someone be given job just because they are British? Employers should be allowed to employ the best person for the job.

I think that laws on the mimimum wage should be enforced. It should be made a criminal offence to accept a job that pays less than the mimimum wage. This would help to protect low paid workers of all nationalities.

Oh and PCSMUM I've come across migrants who have been here for 22 years and are on all the benefits and don't speak a word of english. Is that beneficial for the country??? Is that beneficial for the migrants?? I don't think so.

'when a day becomes twice as hard because no one speaks english well enough to communicate with each other properly.'Err...proper communication is possible in other languages you know! and we are a whole world, not just a littel island, we shoudl emrbace other languages, as well as teaching people our own.

where is this pro immigration media? where where? do you only have guardians in your local shop, and no dTelegraph's daily mails, daily stars, suns, mirrors, times, etc etc etc..??

yes, all the people i do mention are great, and all the people you mention are not. so what - ban immigration? some people who are english are cimrinals, some people who are not english are criminals. ex trafficekrs, and gang masters, are not exclusively foreign, i think you'll find thru colonial times we were the worlds greatest gang master and sex trafficker, so maybe we have taught the world to sing our tune, didn't we do well.

and yes, what about the african children who arrive herea nd go missing - i am saying let them come here, lets be open about this, let us not force them into some kind of illegal sub world, lets just say, you are a child, i don't gievt eh slightest fuck where you come from, you are my fellow human and so i will care for you.

higher house prices are more to do with the big giant city bonuses than anything else

I am fine with higher taxes to pay for transltors, that means better services for the most vulnerable, it means people who cannot speak englihs will be able to shock horror, understand what their GP is saying, and become full and engaged member sof scoiety who CONTRIBUTE (remember it is all about what we can get out of them)

I'm glad you mentioned pensions. WE have a declining brith rate. By the time we are old, and needing pensions, on our current birth rate, there will be not enough people of working age to look after those of pension age. Worried? don't be. immigrants have higher birth rates and are typically young people, with young families, so you need immigrants to pay your pension. the mushroom effect.

'the reality that the public sector in some areas tighten up their criteria so only the most desperate get any service because they haven't the money for everyone'...that is not the immigrants fault. if the illegal migrants were allowed to work, they would contribute HUGELY in taxes, and would not need so much state support as they could support themselves, this is, after all, why so many of them came here - to make a better life, to earn a living, to CONTRIBUTE, they would not claim benefits, they would pay taxes, meaning more money for public services, a higher quality public service, and better paid public sector workers.

No,you are not a bigot for worrying about issues, but it is so ignorant to scapegoat immigrants. so fucking ignorant.

you're being ridiculous with all your examples difers. there are plenty uk born citizens who have claimed benefits for 22 years.

Who's lived in the same place for years & years with a family history of having lived their for as long as can be known? I would imagine not many people now a days as people move around - even if it's in the smae country

"What about future pensions for low paid workers?"

I'll tell you about them - immigrants, and migrant workers are paying their taxes to help with the "pension pot"......however a very large number of them will never benefit from any of the money as they'll have long since returned to their country of birth.

The alternative to not allowing asylum seekers into the UK is that people get murdered or tortured.

There are countries that accept more refugees than the UK. Many of these countries are far poorer than ours. For example Ethiopia or Mozambique is near to Darfur than the UK is.

I think there needs to be more planing on an international level to make sure that the needs of genuine asylum seekers are met. In particular desperately poor countries that get more than their fair share or refugees are not stretched to breaking point.

Difers do you seriously think that British men don't pay for sex? Do you seriously think they don't pay for sex with young Eastern European/African girls? Well they do. And if they didn't there wouldn't be a market for sex traffickers. What is more, no one is condoning illegal activity. You cannot punish the vast majority of hard working, trustworthy legal immigrants because of some mostly illegal people out to make a fast buck [those kind of people occur all over the world] there is a frightening lack of legal protection in place to help young people who have been trafficked. Young women who are forced to be prostitutes often cannot escape because if they went to the authorities, they would be deported, and the people who trafficked them will still be able to hurt them when they get home. they are totally trapped. Our authorities turn a blind eye precisely because they are nameless and foreign. That is a scandal of our government and policing more than anything else.

And i do find it funny that the people complaining about foreigners who can't speak the language cannot SPELL for toffee....

[on a more serious note, it really is the shop's fault if a cashier doesn't understand what's going on. Thorough training would have solved the problem of the 'coxes/braeburns' thing. Our local Marks and Spencers [alright it isn't that local] employ almost all of their cashiers from overseas. they are unfailingly polite, friendly and know their cantaloupes from their honeydews.

Fact that many prosecutes are immigrants shows how difficult it is for someone who can't speak good English is to get a job.

The sad thing is though that many women are forced into proscution by being tricked. They are essentially in slavery and get very little of the money paid for sex. They are also subjected to rape and threats of violence to their family back home.

Surely most of us have ancestors who were once immigrants to this island?