Why can nothing be done about Mugabe and his destroying of Zimababwe???

[tiredemma]

Im watching the news aghast and saddened for the people of Zimbabwe. I will admit that I am not at all familiar with world politics- but why is Mugabe being allowed to get away with this?
the world was quick to interfere with Iraq's business - why does nobody in power seem to care about the terrible plight here?

someone please educate me.

"The Anglican Archbishop of York, John Sentamu, has called on the British Prime Minister Gordon Brown to revisit the country's policy on Zimbabwe and lead a campaign of foreign intervention. He suggested that it was time because it seems the African solution that former premier Tony Blair had advocated, was not forthcoming.

In a commentary published in the UK Observer newspaper the Archbishop said: "The time has come for Mr. Brown, who has already shown himself to be an African interventionist through his work at the UN in favour of the people of Darfur, finally to slay the ghosts of Britain's colonialist past by thoroughly revising foreign policy towards Zimbabwe and to lead the way in co-ordinating an international response. The time for 'African solutions' alone is now over."

The statement is significant because Sentamu is from Uganda, and his voice adds weight to a crisis that Mugabe tries to blame on European powers. The Catholic Bishops in Zimbabwe have been quite vocal about the deteriorating human rights situation in Zimbabwe, while the Anglican Church has been criticized for being silent. Sentamu's statement went beyond criticism, and suggested strong immediate action by the British government.

In his commentary, the Archbishop urged Brown to pursue a full boycott of the Zimbabwean economy and sport. He strongly criticized South Africa's President Thabo Mbeki, saying he has failed to help Zimbabweans despite his best efforts. Sentamu wrote: "At best, he has been ineffectual in his efforts to advise, cajole and persuade Robert Mugabe to reverse his unjust and brutal regime. At worst, Mbeki is complicit in his failing to lead the charge against a neighbour who is systematically raping the country he leads."

The Archbishop described Mugabe as "the worst kind of racist dictator". He even compared him to the former ruthless dictator of Uganda, Idi Amin. As a solution Sentamu said: "It is now time for the sanctions and campaigns that brought an end to apartheid in South Africa to be applied to the Mugabe regime. What Britain deemed to be in the best interest of the Rhodesian government of Ian Smith must now be enacted against the Zimbabwean government of Robert Mugabe."

"but put them in a rather emotive"

well please forgive me for being emotive on a subject which is very close to my heart and which I do have a decent amount of knowledge in - there's no many subjects on MN that I claim to much about - but this is one of them.

"And just cos you may know people, friends and family from Zimbabwe"

I also lived there myself - infact had Mugabe not started to lose the plot I'd still be there now - it was only when the country starting going downhill very rapidly that we decided it would be better for both of us if we left . Many of DH's close family are also politically active (or as much as one can be if you support the "wrong" party") out there - and he would be too if we were still living there.

I just feel very sad that in the midst of all this MBeki doesn't actually do the right thing..indeed, he himself shows signs of following Mugabe in some ways (eg recent health minister troubles). That is the one person who could force a turnaround in Zim, and without his support for change many other countries will be reluctant to get involved...unless MBeki does the right thing, then any intervention in this country runs the risk of being accused of colonial/racist interference. I lived in SA for a few years and it was heartbreaking to watch everything disintegrate there so quickly.. there was Mozambique rising from the ashes, whilst Zim went and set itself on fire.

yes and of course neighbouring countries such as Mozambique and Zambia are now starting to do better as they've welcomed with pretty open arms farmers (of all colours) who've been made landless/farmless.

These are experience commerical farmers who are now boosting the economies of those countries.

And of course with Victoria Falls Zambia is getting the "fallout" of the tourists that no longer want to stay in Zim - they stay in Zambia and just pop over the border to see the fallls

No need to apologise (even ironically ), there is nothing wrong with getting emotional over something you care deeply about; I was just pointing out that the debate then generally becomes undebatable (if such a word exists), but we aren?t in academia and most arguments on here do that anyway. I?ve no doubt that you have more knowledge of the subject, but

I for one don?t like the idea that ignorance automatically equals racism (or any other ism). There might be a correlation, but there also has to be a lot of people ignorant of certain issues and details who can be educated on them; but if words like ?racist? are bandied about, people will just shut down and go on the defensive...and maybe even then have a higher chance of falling in with the racists after all...? Just one look at a BNP flyer will tell you that racism recruits from the league of angry, ignorant and begrudged people.

Sorry, a bit was missing;

I?ve no doubt that you have more knowledge of the subject than most, but expert is still a stretch - not that you ever called yourself one, as far as I can see. Being a pedant, forgive me.

Very true MT.

I used to believe that racism was about being nasty to another of a so called different race just because of that. I don't know how racism is the right word as we are all part of the human race.

Anyway, it's not racist to suggest that European farmers, worked the land in any of the African countries very well. They just did. What they did whilst carrying this out is another discussion.

I think that someone summed it up with the fact that modern ideas were being bought into the current way of things.

But, having kicked out all of the whites in this country, it's not doing terribly well either way.

This man, Mugabe, will eventually get kicked out but will be long gone, probably to South America. Then another idiot will take over, thats the way of Africa, it seems to me.

"Then another idiot will take over, thats the way of Africa, it seems to me."

yes sadly that is the case in a lot of African countries - however there are some success stories - and while not perfect by any stretch of the imagination (if any country ) they do exist - Somalialand is a prime example. Botswana another one.

You have to remember that when the whites colonised Africa (in particular) they "took over" the running of the countries, blacks were by most accounts left out of the picture when it came to leading/running a country. Western countries fought hard against many of them becoming independent, when they did it was hailed as a wonderful step forward........and then they were left to their own devices. Democracy in the West evolved over many, many years - most African leaders have, quite literally, been thrown in the at the deep end - so naturally there are problems.

However, the African nations are, very slowly but surely, becoming more literate and educated soceities and I believe that as time moves on more and more decent leaders will emerge to govern their countries.

oh and Mozambique isn't doing so badly seen as though it's civil war only ended in 1992 - 15yrs not really a very long time for rebuilding a poor nation.

It doesn't help that their natural resources are tantomount to raped by ex-colonies.

When resources are scarce, men (as those in power generally) have a habit of commiting atrocities to get more - in Africa or elsewhere.

It's so frustrating,as Squiffy says, that the one person really in a position to change things - Thabo Mbeki - has been so ineffectual.

Mbeki himself has a pretty patriarchal political style, and perhaps from where he's sitting, Mugabe isn't all that bad.

I've heard a theory that the Southern African tradition of respect towards elders and chiefs has backfired here, in that the leaders of neighbouring countries feel that their hands are tied when dealing with someone who is in every way their senior.

I don't know if that's true or not, but there's presumably some reason why Mugabe's been able to rampage around unchecked, when his neighbours must be aware that if Zimbabwe implodes into famine and civil war, the whole region will suffer.

Agree with QoQ too, that "independence" for many ex-colonies has meant being abandoned to their fate and being expected to create a utopia despite having no prior experience of democracy whatsoever.

Any ex-colony which is reasonably all right is doing fabulously well, actually, considering what they're up against.

I can't believe Desiderata says she is 'an historian'
It is historical FACT that colonialism RUINED most non european cultures over time, stripping nations of their tribal heritage and structure, then buggering off to let everyone fend for themselves, torn between ancient culture and modern practices (both social and industrial).
Actually, you don't need to be 'an historian' to find that stuff out.
Look at the Native American people, the Aztecs, the indigenous people of the carribean, not to mention the people of every African Nation ... The list is endless.

I don't think the Australian Aborigines are sitting around giving thanks for having been colonised and taught agriculture either, ingrates that they are.

No Welliemum ... like I said, 'The list is endless' ... I wasn't missing them out ...

Sorry, ghosty, didn't mean to imply you had forgotten you were in Aus

But they're quite a good example of a colonial disaster I think, and I don't imagine being tuaght how to farm sheep is much compensation somehow.

I might be naive, but, when the people took over the infrastructure that was already there, why didn't they continue with it. If x bought corn from z, why on earth didn't it continue.

UCM - post-colonial difficulties arose for a number of reasons and these vary from country to country. But to try to put some of the common factors simply re infrastructure - often the political/social/economic structures that had been put in place were unsuited - a classic example of this is the imposition of western concepts of land law that were wholly inappropriate for countries where land use and ownership was based on traditional laws that accomodated both pastoral and nomadic land use (eg Darfur).

Not only were structures not designed to suit the country they were designed to suit the the colonial power - many colonised countries (including Zimbabwe) originated as economic agreements - individuals negotiating rights to land and resources with individual tribal or traditional leaders. the political structures that evolved were specifically designed to allow the colonial power to continue to be just that.

Ever heard the phrase "divide and rule"? That was a classic colonial strategy - keeping local structures, local leaders weak and divided - again to ensure the colonial position of domination.

So what you had as colonialism crumbled was yes, some nice roads, but in terms of poltical, economic and social infrastructure you often had systems ill-suited to a post-colonial independent state and few individuals or communities up to the job of running them anyway. ie chaos - and power vacuums begging to be filled by the power hungry.

Despite the situation in Zimbabwe and also Sudan, I feel hopeful for some parts of Africa - horrific conflicts in Sierra Leone, Liberia, Cote d'Ivoire and DRC have drawn to a close - although the threat of them being re-ignited is never far away. Liberia has a woman president that appears genuinely interested in her country. Sometimes I despair of the situation in Zimbabwe - people talk about "doing something" but I often feel it is too late - we should have been "doing somthing" long ago. If we are to learn anything from our experiences and mistakes we should recognise the importance of assisting countries that are emerging from conflict and play a role in helping them ensure they don;t go down that route again. When - these days - do you hear about the countries I just listed on the news? But what's going on there now is so important.

at length. I was on a bit of a roll...

The situation is generally as bad if not worse than it appears on the news items this week. My DH is fom Zim and his parents and brother still live in Bulawayo. We have been supporting them finacially since things began to really go downhill. This week after speaking to them on the phone we tried to send them essential food items ie dried milk, flour, yeast, rice, pasta etc as these items are not easily available but many of the items have not made it through Zim customs. It would appear that Zim customs have seized these items as "prohibited" and we have been prevented from helping them out. The cynic in me wonders whether this is because they are not supporters of Mugabe or because they have just applied for visas to the UK. Realisically I believe they may have been taken for customs to either use themselves or sell on for vast profits. We are left desparately wondering what else we can do.

I haven't read this whole thread. But I am south african and the situation in zim makes me sob. In fact when I watched the news the other day, that's exactly what I did in front of my little boys. My 3 year old said: why are you sad mommy? I couldn't really say: because there is an evil, evil power crazed fool who puts his own greed before the desparate needs of his people which is causing them to starve and live hideous lives (albeit very short lives). So I just said: because some little children have no food to eat and that makes me very sad. My son duly ate all his supper.

If there was something I could do, I would do it. I don't know how to help but I want to more than I've wanted to do anything in my entire life. And as for that twit Mbeki who should be doing his utmost to stop Mugabe, well don't even get me started...

J&J- as well as trying to help family we are collecting old mobiles and fundraising for an orphanage in Bulawayo. If you have any spare or can help in any way I'm sure they really need it right now.

previous thread

Thanks for that link. I'll read up. I don't have any old mobile phones. But will ask around

Thats great thanks. I have found that loads of people who have an old one in a drawer from a contract renew.

I ultimately want to help raise the £1400 they need for a borehole as they have no reliable water supply. If you have any ideas for fundraising I can do etc any help at all is good.

(sorry for the thread hijack)